Subject: Network Browser & SLP

From: Ken Gillett <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 17:08:15 +0000

Since my last post regarding:-

>
>Why NB on the G3 refuses to mount the Netatalk and other volumes?
>

I have downgraded the AppleShare extension from 3.9.2 that is part of 
OS 9.2 to 3.8.8 from OS 9.1 and guess what - SUCCESS. I can now mount 
volumes directly from the Network Browser AND aliases to the volumes 
work even if not already connected to that server.

So Apple would appear to have introduced a problem with its latest OS 
updates that prevents mounting outside the Chooser.

I'm still intrigued though as to why even with this working 
AppleShare extension this G3 does not display the 'Local Services' 
neighborhood in NB as does the 8500 - they are now both using the 
same NSL Manager version and AppleShare extn.

I would like to be able to group FTP, AFP and HTTP services into 
their own neighborhoods and I 'think' scopes can be used for this, 
but so far it's not worked. Has anyone else been able to do this with 
their Netatalk servers?
-- 

Ken  G i l l e t t

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From: Sak Wathanasin <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 23:03:38 +0000

In reply to Ken Gillett's message of the 05/02/2002 at 17:08 +0000,

>updates that prevents mounting outside the Chooser.

Nope: I've just mounted one of my netatalk volumes on my iBook (OS 
9.2.2) via the Network Browser. And aliases to these volumes have 
always worked for me: I have them in my startup folder and they 
auto-mount on each reboot. Whatever it is that is causing your 
difficulties, it isn't (just) the AShare clients.

-- 
Sak Wathanasin
Network Analysis Limited

Internet: [email-masked]
Phone: (+44) 24 76 41 99 96        Mobile: (+44) 79 70 75 19 12 
Fax: (+44) 24 76 69 06 90

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From: Thomas Schierle <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 22:29:26 +0100

Interesting ... at work, connecting against an ASIP 6.3.2 on 9.0.4 server
(we have AppleTalk enabled), from an OS 9.2.2 workstation AppleTalk
logins initiated by Network Browser work like a charm, whereas TCP logins
fail miserably. I'll see if I can find a 9.1 workstation tomorrow.

-Thomas

-- 
Thomas Schierle, Munich, Germany

PGP key [DSS/DH] 0xA23CDA1D available at various public key servers

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From: Ken Gillett <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 08:19:49 +0000

>fail miserably. I'll see if I can find a 9.1 workstation tomorrow.

The story continues...

Since the downgrade's apparent success I have again experienced a 
failure to mount from the Network Browser, so using AppleShare 3.8.8 
is not the 'cure all' I had perceived. In fact I'm not sure it did 
much at all, maybe the reboot is what allowed it to work?

There is something funny about the NB. We have ascertained that it 
'interprets' the afp URL in different ways according to what it sees, 
so it seems that Apple has tried to build in some form of 
Intelligence, but as usual that just results in confusion.

What I have noticed is that if when using the Chooser to connect I 
check the 'save in keychain' box and also the 'save user name and 
password' option in the next dialog (save password is enabled for 
Netatalk), then there's an error message about not being able to save 
in the keychain as it must be read only, yet the volume still mounts 
and the password etc is saved in the keychain.

The above may not be connected, but it seems to me that the failure 
to mount from NB might be some form of authentication failure. Once I 
have mounted one volume from the server, then the NB and aliases of 
other volumes seem to work. IOW, once authenticated on that server 
these methods then succeed, but if it's the first time and 
authentication is required, it fails.

I have another question that is really just concerning the NB. Once 
connected to a server under one username, how can you login with a 
different name? Every way I try, it just uses the last username, 
whereas with the chooser you can pick a different name each time.

Something is certainly not right with it. What are other's 
experiences of using the Network Browser?
-- 

Ken  G i l l e t t

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From: Sak Wathanasin <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:02:38 +0000

In reply to Ken Gillett's message of the 07/02/2002 at 08:19 +0000,

>'interprets' the afp URL in different ways according to what it 
>sees, so it seems that Apple has tried to build in some form of 

Yes, it talks to the server to see what version it is running, what 
protocols it supports, what authentication methods are available and 
so on. These are fairly well-defined, and there is no "confusion".

>password' option in the next dialog (save password is enabled for

I save my username/password in the keychain ever since this facility 
was introduced and it works fine. I keep aliases to my network 
volumes in my startup folder and they auto-mount on my desktop every 
day (once I unlock the keychain, which I only have to do once per 
reboot).

>Once connected to a server under one username, how can you login 
>with a different name? Every way I try, it just uses the last 
>username, whereas with the chooser you can pick a different name 
>each time.

It does, doesn't it? OTOH, try throwing away its preferences?

-- 
Sak Wathanasin
Network Analysis Limited           http://www.network-analysis.ltd.uk

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From: Thomas Kaiser <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:40:24 +0100

> so on. These are fairly well-defined, and there is no "confusion".

I think, Ken means the fact that sometimes the AFP URL attribute and
sometimes the NAME attribute will be interpreted by NB... (my mail from Sun,
03 Feb 2002 12:58:34 +0100, subject "Re: SLP registration"). Both happening
before some sort of afp conversation starts with the server...

Regards,

Thomas

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From: Thomas Kaiser <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:48:08 +0100

> whereas with the chooser you can pick a different name each time.

Not for me. Even with the chooser I never will get a new authentication
chance as the dialog will show "already registered on server xy"...

Regards,

Thomas

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From: Ken Gillett <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 12:03:11 +0000

>chance as the dialog will show "already registered on server xy"...

Not if you unmount all volumes from that server. In that case the 
Chooser will display the logon dialog again, but NB just reconnects 
with the same username etc.
-- 

Ken  G i l l e t t

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From: Ken Gillett <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 12:28:12 +0000

>so on. These are fairly well-defined, and there is no "confusion".

I beg to differ. Most Mac users have no idea what the Network Browser 
is all about - it has to be one of the most poorly documented aspects 
of the Mac, even for Apple.

So, to eliminate my confusion, perhaps you could explain the following:-

What does 'New Neighborhood' mean? I know it adds one to the list, 
but this is then never populated with anything, even when advertising 
services with the same specified scope name (via the SLP server).

Why does a 9.2.2 machine list only the AppleTalk and Local Network 
neighborhoods and a 9.1 Mac show the Local Network neighborhood 
INSIDE a Local Services neighborhood?

Why does the ftp service not allow a name to be specified in the same 
way as an afp, or http service?

Why do a lot of people suffer NB crashing as soon as it's started?

Why does the NB NOT mount a volume when double clicking on it?

Why does the NB sometimes mount a volume when double clicking on it?

Where is the documentation that explains all this?

>day (once I unlock the keychain, which I only have to do once per 

If you check the 'reconnect at startup' boxes you shouldn't need to 
put volume aliases in your startup folder. You seem confused about 
this:-)

>It does, doesn't it? OTOH, try throwing away its preferences?

Not a very satisfactory solution though really is it, just to login 
to a server with a different name. Not a solution at all.

I believe the NB has a lot of potential, but it's difficult trying to 
figure out how it works and why it does, or does not do certain 
things. It is not easy finding these things out and that's why I'm 
hoping for some clues here from others who may, or may not be more 
knowledgeable than me.
-- 

Ken  G i l l e t t

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From: Sak Wathanasin <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 13:36:56 +0000

In reply to Ken Gillett's message of the 07/02/2002 at 12:28 +0000,

>So, to eliminate my confusion, perhaps you could explain the following:-

Try this:

ftp://manuals.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Manuals/software/NSLAdminGuide.PDF

>put volume aliases in your startup folder. You seem confused about 

No, it's because I want other things to start up before I mount the 
volumes. It also allows me to cancel the volume mount eg if I'm using 
my iBook on a train. There's more than 1 way to skin a cat.

PS Can people plese stop cc'ing to my private e-mail addr unless they 
want paid consultancy: I have got work to do, guys...
-- 
Sak Wathanasin
Network Analysis Limited           http://www.network-analysis.ltd.uk

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From: Thomas Kaiser <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 14:56:06 +0100

On Thu, 7 Feb 2002 12:28:12 +0000, Ken Gillett wrote:

> is all about - 

It's a frontend for the "Network Services Location Manager Network" (see the
URL, Sak provided, or two below)

<http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/macos8/pdf/NSL_Mgr.pdf>
<http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/macosx/Networking/NSL/index.html>

At <http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=58102> you will find some
basic info too...

Maybe you will also find useful stuff at <http://www.opendoor.com/>

Regards,

Thomas

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From: Ken Gillett <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 16:48:49 +0000

>URL, Sak provided, or two below)

Don't forget, we're the elite and know something of what we talk 
about whereas to be quite frank, most Mac users do not and I repeat 
they have no idea what the Network Browser is all about and that 
includes Apple employees.

It was an attempt to provide point and click access to network 
resources (who says they copied Windows Network Neighborhood) but is 
so obscure in its operation that regular Mac users don't understand 
it, they certainly shouldn't need to read the developer docs to 
figure it out.

I however, will read the docs so I do have an idea and for that I 
thank you all for the provided links.
-- 

Ken  G i l l e t t

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