Subject: Netatalk ok, reliable for large no of users?

From: Rory Campbell-Lange <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:18:51 +0000

Hi

We're running about 120 Mac users off 1 NT4 Compaq Proliant 1600 server in
a flat network arrangement that is fully switched. The NT4 server has a
single 100Mb card set to full duplex. Its 40Gb disk space is running at
about 95% full. We need to replace this server with one or more servers
providing, probably, a faster network interface - dual network cards - and
about 100Gb file serving space.

I ran a couple of tests comparing the performance over the network of
reading and writing files over AoIP to a 7200 (<100Mb RAM) working as our
intranet server, and compared this performance to the NT4 server. I used
the helios lantest to do the tests, using small 3000K files. It seems that
we would gain from a large benefit in network performance if we moved to
AoIP if I'm correct in thinking that the Linux box would have done better
with a 100Mb card set to full duplex. I might be wrong though!

in KB/sec                   NT4         Linux
write 3000KB file           756         810
read 3000KB file            870         1024

I am trying to select the correct hardware/software combination for these
file servers. We do not have complex group/user configuration, and there is
relatively little protection of directories as we work in a collaborative
work environment. Our main network usage of files are Microstation CAD
files, few of which are over 3Mb in size.

Is netatalk/Linux a viable alternative to NT4/Windows 2000 for file serving
for about 120 Mac users? Or should I be waiting for the new OSX server?

I'd be really grateful for any advice or comment
Rory
--
	Rory Campbell-Lange
	The Campbell-Lange Workshop
	London

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From: Matthew Keller <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:42:07 -0500

Rory Campbell-Lange wrote:
> for about 120 Mac users?

	Piece of cake- Just don't be skimpy on the fast disks or RAM. :) One
possible problem (but not always): If multiple users have the same exact
file open on a Netalk server- Depending how the program deals with
locking, you may get file corruption problems. This is easily tested by,
quite simply, throwing such a file on a Netatalk server, and have a
couple people do whatever it is they do at the same time, and see what
breaks (or doesn't).	

-- 

 Matthew Keller
 WebMaster, Interim Network Manager & 
   Host Systems Analyst
 Computing & Technology Services
 Information Services Division
 State University of New York at Potsdam
 
 Website: http://mattwork.potsdam.edu/
 PGP: http://mattwork.potsdam.edu/crypto/

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From: Ryan McBeth <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:07:44 -0500

Rory,

	I hate to put on a flame-proof suit, but I might stay with NT 
in your situation.  As a web publishing house, we need the 
virtual-hosting capabilities of Linux and Apache.  Netatalk allows 
our artists to archive and publish right to the Apache server, things 
that we can't really do with IIS/NT.   However, if NT is working for 
you now, maybe you should stick with it.
You'll never find a more pro-linux person than me, but if NT is 
working, and working well in your situation, it might be better to 
get a second NT machine, network mount the drive through the first 
machine, and keep on working.

	Not trying to start a flame war, just IMHO.
	However, if it ain't broken ... don't break it.

	Ryan

>I'd be really grateful for any advice or comment

__________________________________
Ryan McBeth
Systems Administrator, Mobius New Media
Voice: (302) 475-9880 x11
FAX: (302) 475-9894
www.mobiusnm.com
__________________________________
The secret to not getting burned out is to play at
working hard, and not taking things too seriously.
- Linus Torvalds

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From: Rory Campbell-Lange <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:53:37 +0000

Hi Ryan

Thanks for your valuable comment. I suppose my main concern presently has
to do with AoIP versus plain Appletalk. If netatalk gives us the ability to
do AoIP (which NT4 doesn't) and this has some significant speed increases,
we'd be pretty interested.

How many people use the netatalk serving in your environment?

Cheers;
Rory

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From: Rory Campbell-Lange <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:54:30 +0000

On 20/2/01, [email-masked] (Matthew Keller) wrote:

> > Is netatalk/Linux a viable alternative to NT4/Windows 2000 for
> > file serving for about 120 Mac users?
> 
> possible problem (but not always): If multiple users have the same
> exact file open on a Netalk server- Depending how the program deals
> with locking, you may get file corruption problems. This is easily
> tested by, quite simply, throwing such a file on a Netatalk server,
> and have a couple people do whatever it is they do at the same time,
> and see what breaks (or doesn't).

Thanks for the note, Matthew

How many users use netatalk in your environment?

Cheers;
Rory

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From: Matthew Keller <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:24:49 -0500

> How many users use netatalk in your environment?

	Varies- Here at the college we have as many as 220 simultaneous
Netatalk sessions to an aging box that is slated for replacement very
soon (it originally served about 10 simultaneous Netatalk sessions).
This box also runs Samba to share the same folders up for Windows users.
	I have a client who make much more robust use of Netatalk- They have
about 450 concurrent Netatalk sessions to their cluster (4 nodes, ASIP
(AoIP) only). They toss around gigabyte files over gig ethernet like
they were candy (DV Production/PostProduction and CG movie shorts).
	I have several other clients who use Netatalk less than the college
does as far as simultaneous session.
-- 

 Matthew Keller