Subject: zones in netalk

From: "Kathy Quinlan" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 12:11:30 +0800

I am using freebsd 4.3R

I am using netatalk 1.4b2+asun2.1.3  installed form the ports collection.

The mac can see the server fine, and file share. (I have no printers set up
yet as they all hang of win2k boxes)

I can not get zones to work :o(

I have 2 network cards, one for the ADSL link and one for the internal
network. The ADSL one is not used for AppleTalk.

I have a line in my /usr/local/etc/atalkd.conf :

#ed0 -seed -phase 2 -net 0-65534 -addr 65280.185 -zone "home"

but every time netatalk starts, it removes the - zone "home" and no zones
are install :o(

Please help

Regards,

Kat.

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---

From: Thomas Kaiser <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 08:07:01 +0100

> but every time netatalk starts, it removes the - zone "home" and no zones

Normally, atalkd will only publish zones if you use it as a router. That
means you specify more than two interfaces for use with atalkd, eg.:

ed0 -seed -phase 2 -net 1-20 -addr 10.142 -zone "my first zone" -zone "home"
ed1 -seed -phase 2 -net 21-40 -addr 21.142 -zone "my second zone"

(netranges have to stay unique)

atalkd also supports a switch "-router". With it you can publish zones even
if you are using only one interface:

ed0 -router -seed -phase 2 -net 1-20 -addr 10.142 -zone "my first zone" \
    -zone "my second zone" -zone "home"

References:
<http://www.transit.hanse.de/netatalk/router.html>,
<http://www.umich.edu/~rsug/netatalk/archive/admins/1999/2163.html>

Regards,

Thomas

---

From: gmac63 <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 06:24:44 -0500

> <http://www.umich.edu/~rsug/netatalk/archive/admins/1999/2163.html>

AppleTalk routing via Netatalk is so confusing. I had originally put -seed 
into my atalkd.conf file and "broke" my network. So much for trying to work 
on the network while others are there :)

Say, I have three NICs and only need one zone, but I want to route between 
the three. If I inderstand you, -seed will allow for multiple NICs/zones and 
-router will route multiple zones on one NIC. Is that the "rule"?

So, basically, -seed and -router do the same...? -seed is for multiple 
NICs....?

Also, one very confusing thing. As I'm reading about AppleTalk (ughhh) and 
how it assigns networks and addresses (double ugh), I understand that 
AppleTalk devices start off with a certain "standard startup network range" 
of between 65280-65534. When I start Netatalk with -seed or -router, it 
"captures" or some devices spontaneously change their network address...!

Is this normal? 

Below are a few attempts at making the three work. From atalkd.conf:

       This turns on transition routing between the le0 and le1
#       interfaces on a Sun.  It also causes atalkd to fail if other
#       routers disagree about it's configuration of le1.
#
### Worked, but broke the network
# 11/24 shut off all appleT devices and started with this configuration.
# it worked for all devices restarted so far. See on Monday.
#eth0 -router -phase 2 -net 1-20 -addr 1.10 -zone "*"
#eth1 -router -phase 2 -net 21-40 -addr 21.10 -zone "*"
#eth2 -router -phase 2 -net 41-60 -addr 41.10 -zone "*"

### Worked, but broke the network
#eth0 -seed -phase 2 -net 1-20 -addr 1.10 -zone "*"
#eth1 -seed -phase 2 -net 21-40 -addr 21.10 -zone "*"
#eth2 -seed -phase 2 -net 41-60 -addr 41.10 -zone "*"

### test to see if eth0 will be a router and if it
# can seed the other nics.
eth0 -router -phase 2 -net 1-20 -addr 1.11 -zone "*"
eth1 -seed -phase 2 -net 21-40 -addr 21.10 -zone "*"
eth2 -seed -phase 2 -net 41-60 -addr 41.10 -zone "*"

If you have any suggestions other than those mentioned to Kathy Quinlan, let 
me know. I wish there was some adequate Netatalk routing documentation that 
explains -seed vs -router and having multiple NICs and zones.

-Wes Yates

---

From: Thomas Kaiser <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 13:31:04 +0100

On Tue, 27 Nov 2001 06:24:44 -0500, gmac63 wrote:

> AppleTalk routing via Netatalk is so confusing.

No ;-)

The only thing that's confusing is the ability to establish zones without
doing "real" AppleTalk routing, IMHO (the '-router' switch)

> I had originally put -seed into my atalkd.conf file and "broke" my network.

Well, you should understand what "-seed" means ;-)

> So much for trying to work on the network while others are there :)

AppleTalk is self-configuring with minimum need for administration for
AppleTalk Devices themselves. The only things, that have to be configured
are

- Routing

- Zones

If you change something with this, all affected AppleTalk Devices have to
learn the new configuration and therefore currently established network
connections (AppleTalk-only) will be lost.

Some basic information on AppleTalk Routing and the concepts behind is
available here: 

    <http://www.neon.com/atalk_routing.html>

Basic knowledge about the various AppleTalk protocols can be found here:

    <http://www.protocols.com/pbook/appletalk.htm>

> the three. 

Easy. But, you have to understand that routing is one thing and establishing
zones is another. Zones and AppleTalk-segments are completely independent
from another. You can publish more than one zone per segment and also map
one zone to several segments.

So for your needs, you should just let atalkd publish the same zone name in
every segment.

> If I inderstand you, -seed will allow for multiple NICs/zones

No, definitely not.

There are two types of AppleTalk Routers. Seed- and non-seed routers. A seed
router spreads it's configuration into the net, so all directly connected
AppleTalk Devices can 'learn' their configuration from him. A non-seed
router will have to learn it's routing configuration from seed-routers on
the net. So a non-seed router will try to find out which AppleTalk
configuration is legal on each interface. Of course, you can mix this, e.g.
let netatalk play the role of an AppleTalk seed-router on eth0 -- but on
eth1, just learn the configuration from an already active AppleTalk-Router
on this wire.

> and -router will route multiple zones on one NIC. Is that the "rule"?

'-router' will enable you to publish zones even if you only use one single
interface for AppleTalk (which might confuse some AppleTalk devices, IMHO --
I never used it)

> So, basically, -seed and -router do the same...? -seed is for multiple

No ;-)

The '-router' switch will only be useful in situations with one NIC
configured for AppleTalk use. Otherwise Netatalk won't behave like a router
(routing between 1 subnet is impossible, isn't it), so '-router' fakes
something.

> how it assigns networks and addresses (double ugh),

Hmm... do you know any smarter methods for self-administering networks?
I don't ;-)

> I understand that AppleTalk devices start off with a certain "standard startup
> network range" of between 65280-65534.

Yes, this is true. The devices will stay inside this range, if no routers
are present. Otherwise those network ranges will be used, that an AppleTalk
router established for the segment (valid in the range 1-65279 AFAIR)

> When I start Netatalk with -seed or -router, it "captures" or some devices
> spontaneously change their network address...!

Well, you switched your AppleTalk-LAN from an unrouted to a routed
environment. In the latter case, addresses from within the startup range are
illegal.

> Is this normal? 

Of course.

> Below are a few attempts at making the three work. From atalkd.conf:

One remark: Each of the three NICs should be on a different segment. If two
of them are plugged into the same switch/hub, problems will appear with
netranges.

> ### Worked, but broke the network

What do you mean with 'broke the network'. If you switch from unrouted to
routed LAN, all the AppleTalk-Devices will have to reassign themselves
AppleTalk-adresses. It might be necessary to restart all the macs or better
just open and close the AppleTalk control panel on every machine.

> #eth2 -router -phase 2 -net 41-60 -addr 41.10 -zone "*"

Try to avoid the '-router' switch in a setup with more than one NIC

> #eth2 -seed -phase 2 -net 41-60 -addr 41.10 -zone "*"

This should be okay. But you can also use a 'real' zone name, because '*' is
the sign for 'standard zone' (another magic AppleTalk thing -- if you have
more than one zone per segment, than there must be one standard zone [always
the first zone name in an atalkd.conf configuration entry]. Dumb AppleTalk
devices like Laserprinters will register themselves in the standard zone.
More intelligent devices can be manually assigned a zone, for example on
macs with the AppleTalk control panel.)

Even if you use a zone name like "there are three segments", the chooser
won't display this name if it is the same in all segments. It will look like

> me know. 

Let all the people have a break (or better wait until evening ;-)

Shut down all your AppleTalk Devices (including Laserwriters, etc -- look
into your LAN via '/usr/bin/nbplkup' for remaining devices). Set up your
routing as example two above. Restart AppleTalk and watch for errors in your
syslog. Look with '/usr/bin/getzones' and nbplkup if everything is set up
like expected. Turn on one mac per segment and look one more time with
nbplkup, whether they appear within the correct netranges. Fire up all NT
and Novell machines (if there are any) to see whether they publish
themselves within illegal netranges (their AppleTalk-implementations are
very poor). Finally switch on the rest. You're done.

There might be problems with NT machines (novell too) that try to act like a
seed router or simply disagree with atalkd's configuration. You will also
have trouble when Spanning Tree Protocol is active on any port of your
Switch to which an AppleTalk device is connected. But these sort of problems
can be nailed down with nbplkup almost every time.

> I wish there was some adequate Netatalk routing documentation that

I thought, this is explained in atalkd.conf? Perhaps we need some more
detailled information about AppleTalk routing in general? Maybe this sort
of documentation will find its way into the docs of the final 1.5 release?

Let's see ;-)

Regards,

Thomas

---

From: "Kathy Quinlan" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 21:12:56 +0800

Ok now got zones woohoooo

But my LC3 keeps loosing the apple talk network, It still keeps running on
TCP/IP <shrug>

from netstat -r I get :

AppleTalk:
Destination        Gateway            Flags      Netif Expire
0                  0.0                U           lo0
1                  10.142             U           ed0
2-3                10.142             U           ed0
4-7                10.142             U           ed0
8-15               10.142             U           ed0
10.142             0.0                UH          lo0
16-19              10.142             U           ed0
20                 10.142             U           ed0

from nbplkup I get :

serverbsd# nbplkup
                      serverbsd:AFPServer
10.142:132
                      serverbsd:netatalk                           10.142:4
                      serverbsd:Workstation                        10.142:4
0A57F05EA07744042000A6@WSKATINKA:Microsoft( Windows 2000* Prt       5.243:2

I can select a zone in M$ win2k, but I do not know how to see the LC3 or the
LC3 to see me (I want the LC3 to use my HDD and Printers)

Any Ideas ??

I know this is slightly off netatalk but......

Regards,

Kat.

---

From: Thomas Kaiser <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:29:26 +0100

> serverbsd# nbplkup

One remark: If you use 'nbplkup' without arguments it will only look into
the default zone. To let it watch other zones, you should supply the zone
name, eg.: 'nbplkup "@my first zone"'

> serverbsd:AFPServer                          10.142:132

Win2K workstation? If you haven't installed PCMacLAN, MacServerIP or
Extreme-Z IP you cannot use the ressources of this machine, because Win2K
workstation speaks AppleTalk but offers no AppleTalk-Services like AFP (for
FileSharing) or PAP (for PrinterSharing).

> I can select a zone in M$ win2k, but I do not know how to see the LC3

The only thing, Win2K Workstation can do with AppleTalk, is connecting to
AppleTalk printers via PAP. So you won't ever 'see' the LC3.

> or the LC3 to see me

Same as above. This won't work with Workstation unless you install
third-party software.

> (I want the LC3 to use my HDD and Printers)

Why do you need zones for that?

> Any Ideas ??

Hmm... The LC3 doesn't appear in your nbplkup output. Maybe he is confused
by the '-router' setup or maybe he only speaks AppleTalk Phase 1 and can't
cope with AppleTalk-Routing at all...

Regards,

Thomas

---

From: Wes Yates <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:24:59 -0500

>>  AppleTalk routing via Netatalk is so confusing.

to you ;-) Actually, its the "mental conversion" between the logical 
TCP/IP and AppleTalk.

>     <http://www.neon.com/atalk_routing.html>

Wonderful site! taught me this much about AppleTalk!

>So for your needs, you should just let atalkd publish the same zone name in

In my case the default "*". I usually don't give a zone, but in my 
tries, I had put -zone "*"

>AppleTalk Devices can 'learn' their configuration from him. A non-seed

Directly the problem I had with devices changing Appletalk net/node addresses!

>(routing between 1 subnet is impossible, isn't it), so '-router' fakes

Ahhhhhh.

>Hmm... do you know any smarter methods for self-administering networks?

I appreciate AppleTalk over TCP/IP (ASIP) more. Not 
self-administering, but that is just me.

>environment. In the latter case, addresses from within the startup range are

yes, I found _that_ out. Not too bad, except two devices didn't want 
to "play appletalk" and switch to my assigned net addresses.

>of them are plugged into the same switch/hub, problems will appear with

They are on separate physical segments.

>just open and close the AppleTalk control panel on every machine.

"broke" in the sense that some appletalk devices switched their 
Appletalk addresses and became invisible to the rest of the network. 
This was my ignorance of how -seed and -router worked. Once started 
in that configuration, some devices lost contact with others via 
Appletalk. Once I turned off netatalk, the problems fixed themselves.

>Try to avoid the '-router' switch in a setup with more than one NIC

Good to know.

>the first zone name in an atalkd.conf configuration entry]. Dumb AppleTalk

Ah, cool. I didn't know that. I'll use this configuration then (with zones ;).

But I _will_ have to use -seed with multiple NICs, yes?

>Let all the people have a break (or better wait until evening ;-)

I had :-) I had to undo what I had done before because two simple 
little epson printers have to have their Appletalk address ranges put 
in, but that will be fixed soon.

>and Novell machines (if there are any) to see whether they publish

No Novel. NT machines publishing Atalk are fine. Slow, but they have 
no problems with Netatalk.

>very poor). Finally switch on the rest. You're done.

NS! I don't like NT AppleTalk implementations. It works mind you, but 
It isn't ASIP... well not in NT 4 or less.

>of documentation will find its way into the docs of the final 1.5 release?

Ummmm. To a degree. Yours was very helpful! I mean, the information I 
have seen, and that's a lot, is very good and understandable -- hence 
I've gotten _this_ far. And the above AppleTalk sites are tremendous 
sources of information. Its just that I have found little to fully 
explain the effects of the atalkd.conf configuration. If the Netatalk 
package contained a digest like a HOWTO. I know Anders Brownworth has 
one, and its good. But if there was a LDP version of Netatalk-HOWTO 
covering most all aspects of Netatalk -- or perhaps there is one 
coming soon???

>Thomas

Thanks for such as great lesson in Netatalk configuration. It helped 
me out a lot. Mostly I was guessing how to configure the network and 
get AppleTalk routing to work. Good to know I wasn't too far off ;)

Thanks!
-Wes Yates
-- 

-Wes Yates
[email-masked]
wesyates.homeip.net

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"The source flows through all living things, some more than others. Only
those in tune with the source are worthy of being called, Jedi.

Proprietary code leads to fear... fear leads to anger... anger leads 
to hate... hate leads to suffering!"

~spot, Jedi master

---

From: Thomas Kaiser <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 17:20:33 +0100

On Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:24:59 -0500, Wes Yates wrote:

> I appreciate AppleTalk over TCP/IP (ASIP) more. Not self-administering, but
> that is just me.

Have you ever thought about, how it could be that your AFPoverTCP-ready
server will appear in the chooser and can be easily selected without
remembering its name or ip address? It's that great NBP (Name Binding
Protocol) stuff, Apple provided us with.

So you can 'find' your server via AppleTalk but the connection itself will
be established with AFP over TCP if both Server (Netatalk 1.42b+asun2.1.3
AFAIR) and Client (AppleShare Client 3.7.4) support it.

So you can use AFPoverTCP since 1997 without giving up all the convenience,
AppleTalk gave us. 

BTW: There exists such a thing for TCP/IP, too --> SLP (Service Locating
Protocol). The equivalent to zones will be so called 'scopes'. Some good
information about it can be found here:

    <http://www.opendoor.com/shareway/SLP.html>

> [...] But I _will_ have to use -seed with multiple NICs, yes?

You will need this on every interface if there is not another AppleTalk
router active in the directly attached segment (which seems to be the case
for you on each of your NICs ;-).

> [...] NT machines publishing Atalk are fine.

Hmm, if you try to let a NT machine act as an AppleTalk router and there are
'real' rock-solid AppleTalk router implementations also active (like
Netatalk's or from Helios or Xinet), under some circumstances the NT machine
will spit the event log full of errors and will disappear from the AppleTalk
LAN. Very robust ;-)

> Slow, but they have no problems with Netatalk.

They can cause problems in your entire AppleTalk-LAN, if they are set up to
do AppleTalk-Routing and there is an already active AppleTalk router with a
different configuration. The NT machine will publish its idea of the
AppleTalk topology even if the already active router disagrees. Fascinating
how other AppleTalk Devices will behave afterwards ;-)

> [...] Mostly I was guessing how to configure the network and get AppleTalk
> routing to work. Good to know I wasn't too far off ;)

I learned my first lessons from the Helios EtherShare manual. Appendix A-3
describes all the above in detail...

Regards,

Thomas

---

From: Wes Yates <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 12:43:04 -0500

>will spit the event log full of errors and will disappear from the AppleTalk

Funny, our NT box does drop printers from our network occasionally. 
Hmmmmm. Any solution (besides ditching the NT box?)

Speaking of Helios, we have that running on an SGI IRIX as out print 
spooler (not my decision). Would/could that be running as a router? 
In your reference <http://www.transit.hanse.de/netatalk/router.html>, 
I tried to get the zone information. of course there wasn't any and I 
didn't know at the time if I had a router. My assumption, correctly I 
hope is that when I started all the Appletalk devices, they assumed a 
network address from the network range of that segment.

Speaking of servers, here's our interesting assortment of Appletalk servers:
2 Linux Netatalk servers
1 SGI IRIX with Helios ES - Print spooler and file serving capability.
1 NT4 - its a RIP (raster image processor) and not serving files. PAP only
1 Mac with AppleShare IP v6.x as a , ummmm, fileserver.
10+ Macs sharing various volumes. 8.x - OSX
1 Sun Solaris with some sort of AppleTalk (CanOPI sound right?)

All AT devices at this moment are on a single segment (eth0) and are 
getting addresses from 1-20 ash expected. except for two little epson 
printers... but thats another story.

>how other AppleTalk Devices will behave afterwards ;-)

Gotta love MS eh? Geeeez

>describes all the above in detail...

PDF format available? We have Helios.

-Wes Yates
-- 

-Wes Yates
[email-masked]
wesyates.homeip.net

We have enough youth... how 'bout a fountain of SMART?!?!

--tag on a slashdot post.

---

From: Thomas Kaiser <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:12:18 +0100

> Hmmmmm. Any solution (besides ditching the NT box?)

Sounds like the NT box captures the printers? You can look for it with
nbplkup too: If a NT machine will capture a printer it let the printer
publish itself with an 'illegal' AppleTalk device type "[NT's NetBIOS name]
Laserwriter" (instead of Laserwriter).

So if a PC called 'WINDOZE' will capture a printer, the printer will appear
with type 'WINDOZE Laserwriter' in your AppleTalk LAN and can't be
recognized by the Laserwriter chooser extension.

To avoid this, check the NT's setup or hide the printers with EtherShare and
create spoolers for each of them (you could do this manually too. But then
you have to patch all your Laserwriter drivers to recognize the different
device type)

> spooler (not my decision). Would/could that be running as a router?

EtherShare can act as a router, of course. If the SGI has only one
interface, it won't in any case. Helios' implementation of AppleTalk routing
is polite as Netatalk's is: If another router on the net disagrees with the
routing setup, it won't activate AppleTalk Routing on the specific NIC
(trying to avoid AppleTalk confusion)

> network address from the network range of that segment.

This should be true. I took a look into another company (they have a
'firewall' now, they told me... hmm ;-):

      EPSON_7000_sammelform_neu:LaserWriter                        1.78:129
O.R.I.S. for EPSON Stylus Pro 70:LaserWriter                       1.78:130
                       ORIS-CT1:DceDspRpc DynEpt 95.1              1.78:132
                       ORIS-CT1:AFPServer                          1.78:133
                       ORIS-CT1:DceDspRpc Endpoint Mapper          1.78:135
                  El90x1@TAIPAN:Microsoft( Windows NT* Prt 4.00    1.117:2
                       Norm_LZW:LaserWriter                     65469.65:185
                     Font_Kanal:LaserWriter                     65469.65:186
                   Norm_LZW_SEP:LaserWriter                     65469.65:187
                          PILOT:AFPServer                       65469.65:135

They haven't routers, so all devices should register themselves in the
AppleTalk startup range 65280 and above. Two machines won't... NT, of course

> [...]
> PDF format available?

Of course. On every installation CD is a full set of all product's manuals.

> We have Helios.

Tehn you will have the manuals, too... ;-)

Regards,

Thomas

---

From: gmac63 <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 20:59:57 -0500

> Laserwriter" (instead of Laserwriter).

No, it doesn't capture the printers, though I could have set them that way. 
We wanted them to be available even if the spooler was down.

nbplkup does see the printers as well as spools.

> To avoid this, check the NT's setup or hide the printers with EtherShare
> and create spoolers for each of them (you could do this manually too. But
> then you have to patch all your Laserwriter drivers to recognize the
> different device type)
>
> interface, it won't in any case. Helios' implementation of AppleTalk
> routing is polite as Netatalk's is: If another router on the net disagrees
> with the routing setup, it won't activate AppleTalk Routing on the specific
> NIC (trying to avoid AppleTalk confusion)
>
>
Good. the SGI has only one interface.

>                        Norm_LZW:LaserWriter                    
> 65469.65:185 Font_Kanal:LaserWriter                     65469.65:186
> Norm_LZW_SEP:LaserWriter                     65469.65:187 PILOT:AFPServer  
>                     65469.65:135
>
Same here. My NT publishes the Appletalk printers like this:

BK-Art_dept:LaserWriter                        	9.134:129
BK-SP9 Cromalin Matte 720:LaserWriter 	9.134:130
COLORSTATION:AFPServer               	9.134:131
RTL81391@COLORSTATION:Microsoft¨ Windows NTª Prt 4.00    17.206:2
4000RND-TALL:LaserWriter                	13.36:232
2000ELIP-TALL:LaserWriter               	13.36:233
2KELIP-win:LaserWriter                	13.36:129
4000ELIP-TALL:LaserWriter             	13.36:234
DPWS038:AFPServer                       	13.36:130
[...]
4000RNDNEW Spool:LaserWriter                  	65280.162:216         
2000Elip-25-65CAMSpool:LaserWriter          	65280.162:215       
2000Elip25-65lpi Spool:LaserWriter                 	65280.162:220       
4000Elip25-65lpi Spool:LaserWriter               	65280.162:222       
4000Rnd25-65lpi Spool:LaserWriter                	65280.162:224        
2000Rnd25-65lpi Spool:LaserWriter                	65280.162:226         
BW_CSR_area Spool:LaserWriter                	65280.162:228           
2000ELIP-TALL Spool:LaserWriter                      	65280.162:230          
4000RND-TALL Spool:LaserWriter                   	65280.162:238          
4000ELIP-TALL Spool:LaserWriter                	65280.162:235

the COLORSTATION:AFPServer and the DPWS038:AFPServer are both NT servers and 
the Spool:LaserWriters are all coming from the SGI (Helios). 

Once I get this routing worked out (I'm going to use the -seed for eth0-2) 
The above should be on segent 1/eth0 and have a network from 1-20 :-)

> > [...]
> >
> >> I learned my first lessons from the Helios EtherShare manual. Appendix
> >> A-3 describes all the above in detail...
> >
> > PDF format available?
>

Thanks! and thank you for sending that to me!

> Tehn you will have the manuals, too... ;-)

:-)

---

From: Thomas Kaiser <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 07:59:21 +0100

> RTL81391@COLORSTATION:Microsoft¨ Windows NTª Prt 4.00    17.206:2
  ^^^^^^^
You should pull this RealTek NIC out of any computer that does more than
sleeping, IMHO.

Many people have trouble with NICs based on RTL8139 chipsets, on Linux,
FreeBSD, all variations of Windows and even MacOS. They seem to work in
general, but will cause trouble under heavy load...

Maybe your printer probs will disappear.

Regards,

Thomas

---

From: gmac63 <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 06:01:58 -0500

> Maybe your printer probs will disappear.

Oh, yeah, well, this one isn't the one dropping printers. Its a RIP for an 
Epson 9000 Color plotter. Nor a bad box at all -- as NT goes... ;-)

-Wes

---

From: Bob Hobbs <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:16:59 +0000

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