Subject: Re: Hidden Files Not Being Copied

From: Ray Zimmerman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 12:26:01 -0500

At 2:49 PM +0000 1/18/01, Basil Hussain wrote:
>Hi,
>
>>  I have no problems creating a folder on my local Mac disk with a file
>>  named .htaccess in it. I can duplicate that folder with no trouble
>>  and I can even copy it to my netatalk volume and back with no trouble.
>
>My problem wan't that I couldn't copy. On the contrary, there are no
>problems there. It was just that when copying/duplicating a folder
>*containing* a .htaccess file, the .htaccess file itself wasn't being copied
>(in fact, no 'dot' hidden files at all).
>
>Thanks for the reply anyway.

But that's exactly what I'm saying I can do just fine. I create a 
folder on the Mac and save a file called .htaccess in that folder. I 
copy the folder to my netatalk volume (the file goes with it). I 
duplicate the folder on the netatalk volume (the file is in the 
duplicated folder). I copy the new folder somewhere else on the 
netatalk volume (the .htaccess file gets copied with it).

It all behaves just fine as far as I can see.

... ah ... just tried something else. It seems that if I create the 
.htaccess on the Unix side I run into the trouble you see. But if the 
file is created from the Mac (either via Save As to the netatalk 
volume or via copy from a Mac disk to the netatalk volume) it works 
fine because it encodes the '.' in the file name as ':2e').

Hope this helps ...

	Ray

---

From: Duncan Sinclair <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 17:48:43 +0000

Talk about the blind leading the blind!!!

Mac files can start with a "." - try it!  That restriction was
removed years ago.

Mac files can be marked hidden (e.g. the Desktop file, the Trash folder...)

Netatalk doesn't show dot files to the Mac.

Because the Mac doesn't see dot files, it doesn't know to copy them.

It should be possible to get netatalk to tell the mac about dot files,
but mark them hidden.  "Just a Simple Matter of Programming." (TM)

Naturally, special care would have to be taken for the .AppleDouble
directory.

Go on, tell me I'm wrong - I've not verified any of this.

Cheers,

Duncan.

---

From: Bill Moran <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 12:55:19 -0500

> It all behaves just fine as far as I can see.

Interesting. I wonder if the .AppleDouble &/| .AppleDesktop files keep
this information so it displays properly?
This is an interesting quandry. No matter how you handle the translation
there will be problem occasionally. Since you can create dotfiles on the
Mac that have no special significance, then what happens when you copy
them to the Netatalk volume (you describe this below) This behaviour
would look odd from someone working at a bash prompt, or someone
accessing the same files from Samba.
There will always be some quirks in the translation as long as there are
differences in the filesystems, the trick is to make the quirks as
unobtrusive as possible.

Try this one:
sit down at the UN*X server and change to the volume accessible by the
Macs, do "mkdir temp temp/temp temp/temp/temp"
Make sure all those directories has ownership/perms such that they
should be deletable from the Mac, then walk over to the Mac and try to
delete them.
On my FreeBSD based Netatalk server this will present the user with an
error (something like "can't delete because they're in use") with no
particular explanation. You can walk back to the FreeBSD box and delete
them just fine, and even delete them via Samba from NT.
I've guessed that this is a similar problem, since Netatalk creates the
.AppleDouble files after the fact, but I haven't traced it down yet.

> fine because it encodes the '.' in the file name as ':2e').

Are you saying that if you create ".htaccess" from the Mac, a ls command
on the UN*X box shows ":2ehtaccess" ?

-Bill

---

From: Ray Zimmerman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 13:03:00 -0500

>on the UN*X box shows ":2ehtaccess" ?

Exactly.

	Ray

---

From: Ray Zimmerman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 13:19:31 -0500

>Naturally, special care would have to be taken for the .AppleDouble

OK, that's makes three of us ... does anyone see any problems with this?

I think ideally netatalk should have a config option to allow it 
choose between the following 3 behaviors:

1. Don't make dotfiles available to the Mac (current behavior).
2. Make dotfiles available as visible files with no name change.
3. Make dotfiles available as invisible files with the '.' stripped off.

	Ray