Subject: Was my question really that stupid?

From: "David L Kindred (Dave)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:14:37 -0400

Quite some time back, I asked the following:

   I've inherited an old installation of uar on an old SunOS box that I'd
   like to replace.  I have a Linux box on all of the same networks as the
   old box.  I've read all the message archives, and everything else I can
   find, but I haven't seen a definitive statement as to whether netatalk
   can in fact replace uar.

   So, can netatalk replace uar?

I got no replies.  To me this indicates one of the following:

1) I asked a really stupid question and was ignored.  But if the
   question was that stupid, I would've have expected to have been
   flamed.

2) No one here has heard of "uar".  But then I would've expected a
   counter-question.

3) My message never got propagated.  But I did see my copy.

So, I'll try again.  Are any of you familiar with "uar", and can I
replace a uar based system with a netatalk based system?

Any help would be appreciated.

-- 
David L. Kindred                       <mailto:[email-masked]>
Unix Systems & Network Administrator   Telesciences, Inc.
Phone: +1 856 642 4184                 2000 Midlantic Drive, Suite 410
Fax: +1 856 866 0185                   Mount Laurel, NJ 08054 USA

---

From: Danny Sauer <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 11:39:45 -0500

http://www.google.com/?q=uar+netatalk

Looks like UAR is an appletalk router.  Netatalk can do that.  See
http://www.google.com?q=netatalk+%22appletalk+router%22

Google is everyone's friend. :)

--Danny, who would otherwise be no help at all

> Quite some time back, I asked the following:
[...]
> I got no replies.
[...]

---

From: charlie wood <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 10:05:53 -0700

Hi David,

The answer that I have is a yes and a no. It depends entirely on what you
need to do. For example, netatalk has the capability to be either a seed or
a soft seed AppleTalk router, but it does not handle CAP and I do not
believe it is capable of supporting ATIP tunneling, both of which UAR does
if memory serves me correctly.

If all you need to do is route AppleTalk packets between two networks,
netatalk can manage that for you. There are other routing capabilities (such
as soft-seed routing) that netatalk can handle as well, if configured
appropriately.

When you get there (if you decide to go there), netatalk's config files are
fairly simple, with all routing configurations are handled in the
atalkd.conf file. Consult the readme.

I use netatalk1.5pre6 as a seed router in my network, and I'm quite happy
with its function as such.

Other info for you, if you are interested or have the need
--------------------------------------------------

There is a good Linux install overview here:

http://www.linuxworld.com/linuxworld/lw-199-04/lw-04-uptime.html

Good AppleTalk routing site, as cited in the netatalk readme:

http://www.neon.com/atalk_routing.html

Hope the info helps.

</charlie>

_____________________________
Charlie Wood

IT Manager
ID, Incorporated
1620 SW Taylor St Suite 100 Portland, OR 97205
{v} 503-223-7737   {f} 503-223-2719
{e} [email-masked]   {w} http://www.id-inc.com

--

> From: "David L Kindred (Dave)" <[email-masked]>
> Reply-To: [email-masked]
> Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:14:37 -0400
> To: [email-masked]
> Subject: Was my question really that stupid?
> Resent-From: [email-masked]
> Resent-Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 12:17:50 -0400 (EDT)
>

---

From: "Chad Leigh, ObjectWerks, Inc." <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 13:22:13 -0400

->> From: "David L Kindred (Dave)" <[email-masked]>
>> Any help would be appreciated.

The following is not meant as a flame, but to educate.

The 'Net is a great tool.  But it does not remove the need to do your own 
homework.  The various mail lists cannot be looked at as your personal 
researchers.

The proper way to go about this would to have

1.  Researched "uar" and understand what it does, and what your needs are, 
and how "uar" meets those needs.

2.  Research "netatalk" and compare its capabilities to those needs you 
have and "uar"s meeting of those needs.

3.  Decide whether "netatlks" is a candidate to replace "uar" based on your 
research.

4.  Post to the netatalk list any specific questions based on your 
evaluation of your needs, uar, and netatalk, to act as a safety net to make 
sure you understood your needs and netatalk's capabilities.  Propose to the 
list that you are doing this replacement, stating your needs, any questions 
that arose in your research, and see if any one knows of any red flags that 
you did not consider.

If you expect others to do your research for you you will be disappointed. 
If you take it upon yourself to figure things out, and then use the mail 
list as a peer review of your work, you will probably be rewarded.  You can 
also use the list to ask for pointers to additional information or other 
appriorate help if you get stuck in your research, or to ask specific 
questions that come up while doing your own research.

best regards
Chad

---

From: Matthew Keller <[email-masked]>
Date: 13 Sep 2001 13:03:50 -0400

Or 4) No one noticed. ;) Yes, Netatalk can do AppleTalk routing. :)

-- 

Matthew Keller
Enterprise System Analyst
Computing & Technology Services
Information Services Division
State University of NY at Potsdam
Potsdam, NY USA

http://mattwork.potsdam.edu/

---

From: "David L Kindred (Dave)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 09:38:34 -0400

>>>>> "Danny" == Danny Sauer <[email-masked]> writes:

    Danny> ... Looks like UAR  is an appletalk  router.  Netatalk can do
    Danny> that. ...

Thanks.

    Danny> Google is everyone's friend. :)

Except when it gives you too many answers.  I read many, many articles
on the file-sharing capabilities of netatalk, but never hit on the right
incantation to get the routing articles.

---

From: "David L Kindred (Dave)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:11:01 -0400

>>>>> "charlie" == charlie wood <[email-masked]> writes:

    charlie> ... The answer that I have is a yes and a no. ...

Thanks, but I'm not sure I needed THAT much detail.  But at least now
there is a decent discussion of the topic for the next poor soul looking
for the same information.

---

From: "David L Kindred (Dave)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:23:20 -0400

>>>>> "Chad" == Chad Leigh, ObjectWerks, Inc <[email-masked]> writes:

    Chad> 1.  Researched "uar" and understand what it does, and what
    Chad>     your needs are, and how "uar" meets those needs.

Did that.  UAR is an AppleTalk router.

    Chad> 2.  Research "netatalk" and compare its capabilities to those
    Chad>     needs you have and "uar"s meeting of those needs.

Did that, but most of the Netatalk resources focus on File Sharing.  I
was not having mush success with finding routing information.  In fact,
it was unclear to me if Netatalk even WAS an AppleTalk router.

    Chad> 3.  Decide whether "netatlks" is a candidate to replace "uar"
    Chad>     based on your research.

I didn't believe that netatalk was suitable for the task I never would
have asked about it all.

    Chad> 4.  Post to the netatalk list any specific questions based on
    Chad>     your evaluation of your needs, uar, and netatalk, to act
    Chad>     as a safety net to make sure you understood your needs and
    Chad>     netatalk's capabilities.  Propose to the list that you are
    Chad>     doing this replacement, stating your needs, any questions
    Chad>     that arose in your research, and see if any one knows of
    Chad>     any red flags that you did not consider.

Which is what I did, I thought.

    Chad> If you expect others to do your research for you you will be
    Chad> disappointed. If you take it upon yourself to figure things
    Chad> out, and then use the mail list as a peer review of your work,
    Chad> you will probably be rewarded.  You can also use the list to
    Chad> ask for pointers to additional information or other appriorate
    Chad> help if you get stuck in your research, or to ask specific
    Chad> questions that come up while doing your own research.

I did my own research, which led me to believe that the capabilities
existed, yet there were no indications anyone had done what I wanted to
do.  So I was asking for the short answer and sanity check that I wasn't
going in the wrong direction.  And in other messages I've gotten that
information.

Interesting to me though is that is still no indication that anyone else
has ever migrated their AppleTalk routing from UAR to Netatalk, which
may just mean that UAR was never very popular, which would explain the
lack of information about it.

---

From: "David L Kindred (Dave)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 10:23:52 -0400

>>>>> "Matthew" == Matthew Keller <[email-masked]> writes:

    Matthew> 	Or 4) No one noticed. ;) Yes, Netatalk can do AppleTalk
    Matthew> 	routing. :)

Thanks.

---

From: Thomas Kaiser <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2001 18:16:33 +0200

> Did that.  UAR is an AppleTalk router.

It's a bit more than that. It can also be used to tunnel AppleTalk over IP
(UDP is default -- if you pay the shareway fee, you can also use TCP).

Take a look at <http://www.cs.mu.OZ.AU/appletalk/readmes/UAR.README.html>

You may want to use Netatalk to establish AppleTalk seed routing and use UAR
also, because of Netatalk's lack of tunneling (e.g. over a vpn).

> it was unclear to me if Netatalk even WAS an AppleTalk router.

As Danny wrote before: Google is your friend :-)

<http://www.google.com/search?q=netatalk+appletalk+router> points directly
to a good tutorial on <http://www.transit.hanse.de/netatalk/router.html>

The only thing that's missing is netatalks ability to publish zones even
without routing at all (one single interface only configured for atalkd).
For this purpose you need the switch '-router', e.g.

eth0 -router -seed -net 1-1000 -addr 1.142 -zone "faked zone entry"

Regards,

Thomas