Subject: Netatalk wire speed

From: Niall O Broin <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 02:30:01 +0000

Hi again all,
	I've been a long time user of netatlk but I haven't been on this
list for a while, as netatalk just works for me. But now I have an issue
that I'm sure I've seen discussed before but I can't find a reference
(probably not looking in the right place)

I need to copy about 13GB of files from a Linux box to a G3 Powerbook. The
Linux box is running 1.4b2+asun2.1.3 (it's stock SuSE 7) and the Powerbook
has mounted the filesystem using TCP (I hope - I entered the server IP
address rather than picking it by name from the Chooser so that should do
it, no ?). The server has a 3C509 card and is connected to the Powerbook by
a crossover cable, and the link lights indicate that 100 MB is active. When
I drag the relevant folder to the Powerbook (containing about 18000 files)
it trundles away for a while, counting up to the number of files, and then
starts copying. The estimated varies as a few files are copied, but it's
always around 40 hours. Now cutting corners here and there this equates to
an approx. transfer rate of ~ 5MB / minute - this is just a tad below the
wire speed of a 100 MB network.

Now I know that afp won't really approach wirespeed, even over TCP rather
than Appletalk, but even so ~ 5MB / minute seems a bit slow. Anyone have
any suggestions ?

Kindest regards,

Niall  O Broin

---

From: "Chad Leigh, Objectwerks, Inc." <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:37:09 -0500

In normal usage I have never found MacOS to be a speed demon when copying 
large numbers of files.  Try copying that many files between two disks on 
the same machine.

Chad

--On Thursday, February 22, 2001 2:30 AM +0000 Niall O Broin 
<[email-masked]> wrote:

> it, no ?). The server has a 3C509 card and is connected to the Powerbook
> by a crossover cable, and the link lights indicate that 100 MB is active.
> When I drag the relevant folder to the Powerbook (containing about 18000
> files) it trundles away for a while, counting up to the number of files,
> and then starts copying. The estimated varies as a few files are copied,
> but it's always around 40 hours. Now cutting corners here and there this
> equates to an approx. transfer rate of ~ 5MB / minute - this is just a
> tad below the wire speed of a 100 MB network.
>

---

From: Gregg Healy <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:17:17 -0800

My G4 can sustain over 5mb/sec. Limited I think by the HD in my Linux system
but I havent had the money to test it.

There must be some kind of cable or incompatibility problem? Even a slow
10/mb connection can do 10mb/min.

-- 
Gregg Healy, President

PhotoAd.com, Inc.
_________________
800 471-3737 x140

> From: "Chad Leigh, Objectwerks, Inc." <[email-masked]>
> Reply-To: [email-masked]
> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:37:09 -0500
> To: Niall O Broin <[email-masked]>
> Cc: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: Netatalk wire speed
> Resent-From: [email-masked]
> Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:53:23 -0500 (EST)
>

---

From: Marcus Radich <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:45:40 +1300

We use good hardware (IBM Netfinity 3000, now the e-server x200), and 
we can sustain a single connection of over 9.5MB/sec (that's 
megabytes/sec = 100MB copies is about 10 seconds).
The hardware benchmarks at 170MB/sec for the motherboard, and the 
RAID does 50MB/sec. Use hdparm to test your system. It's not a 
perfect test, but it gives you and rough idea of its potential.

/sbin/hdparm -tT /dev/sda   (or hda etc)

Here are the results from a machine we just integrated into a mac studio:

  Timing buffer-cache reads:   128 MB in  0.74 seconds =172.97 MB/sec
  Timing buffered disk reads:  64 MB in  1.13 seconds = 56.64 MB/sec

Most operating systems are fairly bad at copying a large number of 
small files, it's because of the overhead of directory updates etc 
for each little file.

mrad01
-- 
========================================================

"Always ask the question, never assume the answer."
		Marcus Radich 1999

========================================================

---

From: "Bruce A. Burdick, Jr." <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:47:05 -0600

> than Appletalk, but even so ~ 5MB / minute seems a bit slow. Anyone have

Just curious are you thinking in these terms: B = byte and b = bit ?
Because if you have a 100MB network, I want to come and play!

Otherwise, 5MB/minute works out to ~683Kbps, which sounds like around 45%
utilization on a T1 line, or ~6.7% utilization on 10baseT, or ~0.7%
utilization on a 100Mbps connection. Try sticking a full-duplex 10/100 hub
with informative LEDs between the two boxes and seeing what they tell you.
Some versions of Open Transport can be slow, but not that slow.

And 100Mbps is not the same as 100Mbps with full-duplex. You want
full-duplex.

Also, which version of PowerBook is it? I had a Lombard whose 10/100 card
stopped autosensing and permanently defaulted to 10baseT. Apple swapped it
out for me.

-B...

---

From: Jeff Thompson <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:53:51 -0600

Niall-

> it, no ?).

yes, this forces the connection over TCP

> The server has a 3C509 card and is connected to the Powerbook by

Yep, that's very slow.

> than Appletalk, but even so ~ 5MB / minute seems a bit slow. Anyone have

My #1 bet is a bad cable.

#2:    You're server's loaded with something else and afpd can't get the cpu
cycles (or disk I/O's) it needs to send the data.

#2a:    You're getting the 100MB light on the card, but the server only
recognizes it as a 10MB link (driver issue).  Even then, it should be a tad
faster than 5MB/min.

#3:    Your server (if it's normally connected to a larger network, ie the
Internet) is trashing itself trying to get some outside connection while it's
connected via the crossover cable to your 'book.

#4:    Your powerbook's ethernet port is messed up (it's happened to mine)

I hope this helps

--
-Jeff Thompson  (http://jeff.zaius.org)
jeff@zaius(.dyndns).org, [email-masked], [email-masked]

If you keep anything long enough, you can throw it away.

---

From: "Radar O'Reilly" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:01:16 -0500 (EST)

> 10/mb connection can do 10mb/min.

Ah-cha. I've had the same problem observed here transferring files from my 7500
(YellowDog CS 1.2.1) to my 7200 (MacOS 8.6), which started after I upgraded
netatalk lo those eons ago, and hasn't really gone away. At the same time, I've
been having the same good luck as everyone else at work, with the 1.5
prerelease on my RH 7.0 machine. I never did track down what was causing it,
but this was the only time that there was any speed issue with either machine.
I wound up ftping the files in question, if memory serves me correctly.

Anyhoo, just wanted to let the man know he wasn't the only one to have observed
this.

 __________/| Nathan "Radar" Willard MC '00     | "A Sucking Chest Wound is
(_|__|_____\|________      PO Box 203927        |   nature's way of telling
     |_|_____________)- New Haven, CT 06520     |     you to slow down."