Subject: Sherlock / search by content

From: Colin Tueck <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 16:47:42 +0100

Hi netatalk-admins!

Has anyone ever realized a Linux server for some Macs with the possibilty
to search files on the server by content with Sherlock? (Mac OS 9 clients)

We need this feature really, and if there is a possibility this would be a 
real good argument for Linux in contrary to Mac OS X Server.

So, if anyone knows a solution, please let me know. :-)

Colin
-- 
| Colin Tück            | Lothringerstr. 101 | Benzstr. 1       |
| Handy:   0173/9896010 | 52070 Aachen       | 47574 Goch       |
| Mail:  [email-masked] | Fon: 0241/4003872  | Fon: 02823/95305 |

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From: Matthew Geier <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 08:18:44 +1100

> real good argument for Linux in contrary to Mac OS X Server.

 I have 2 users who will not use our file server as their idea of
organisation is to pile all their files into the same folder (usually
the 'root' of their hard disk) and use find by content to retrieve
files.
 Even a find by name is slow over the network.

 Fortunatly for me, they are also happy to 'manually' backup important
files to the server....

 I think a 'real' ASIP server runs the search on the server and uses
special AFP functions to instruct and get data from a remote instance of
'sherlock'.

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From: Thomas Kaiser <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 22:50:52 +0100

>> to search files on the server by content with Sherlock? (Mac OS 9 clients)

I think, the problem isn't the search. The problem is that Sherlock won't
let you build indexes on other media than fixed disk drives in your macs.

You will have to search for a possibility to build the indexes on the server
or work with Sherlock PlugIns and afp urls. Maybe this can be done with
GLIMPSE on the server (<http://webglimpse.org/whatis.html>)

> [...]

This is something different. With AFP 2.1 the FPCatSearch Feature has been
introduced. FPCatSearch means that the client computer sends his search
query to the server which answers to it from its internal disk catalog.
'SupportsCatSearch' has been added to the bitmap for FPGetVolParms. This is
a feature on a per-volume basis.

Since Netatalk still has no fully functional implementation of server-side
desktop databases, this won't work at all, so that the client has to crawl
though the whole volume via network...
 
> [...]

Right. This is done with FPCatSearch. Helios' EtherShare for example will do
the same. NT's SFM fake this command. They tell the client 'I support
FPCatSearch' but start in fact a brute-force search through the whole volume
which will slown down the whole afp server close to a lock-up (compare
<http://www.macwindows.com/servtips.html#hang1> for this 'cool' M$-typical
protocol implementation ;-)

Regards,

Thomas

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From: Thomas Kaiser <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 01:37:31 +0100

On Sun, 25 Nov 2001 22:50:52 +0100, Thomas Kaiser wrote:

> Right. This is done with FPCatSearch.

Upps... I spoke of 'find by name' -- sorry.

AFAIK, if you search by content, then the client's sherlock will just look
into the invisible 'TheFindByContentFolder' Folder. If the contents will be
updated asynchronously by a sherlock on the server (AFAIK ASIP-only), all
the client's sherlocks can use this index for their searches.

I never managed it, to let clients update this Folder. Alistair, have you
ever done this? You gave some hints in your "README.hidden-items", I think?

Regards,

Thomas

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From: Alistair Riddell <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 00:41:08 +0000 (GMT)

> ever done this? You gave some hints in your "README.hidden-items", I think?

No, I have never done this. The folder is created when Sherlock is
launched but as far as I can see is never used on netatalk servers.

I remember hearing that very early versions of Sherlock allowed you to
update the FindByContent index on server volumes. However the ability was
removed in later versions.

On Appleshare IP servers, the index is updated locally on the server.

In netatalk, even a basic find by name means the client must walk the
entire server directory tree. With ASIP, where FPCatSearch is implemented,
this is done much more efficiently on the server.

My copy of Inside Appletalk does not mention the FPCatSearch function, so
I'm not sure what would be required to implement it.

-- 
Alistair Riddell - BOFH
IT Manager, George Watson's College, Edinburgh
Tel: +44 131 446 6070    Fax: +44 131 452 8594
Microsoft - because god hates us

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From: Thomas Kaiser <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 08:40:49 +0100

am 26.11.2001 1:41 Uhr schrieb Alistair Riddell:

> My copy of Inside Appletalk does not mention the FPCatSearch function,

It has been introduced later with AFP 2.1/2.2. I found it in
http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/macos8/pdf/ASAppleTalkFiling2.1_2.2.pdf

> so I'm not sure what would be required to implement it.

The most basic thing would be per-volume databases that contain
file-/foldernames and also ids for both, IMO.

Regards,

Thomas