Subject: No rc.atalk Present

From: "Daniel E. Lautenschleger" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 20:35:36 -0600 (CST)

After compiling pre4 on a RH 7 box, there does not seem to be an rc.atalk
file present that I can start the service with.

The RPM version is /etc/rc.d/init.d/atalk

Anyone know what gives?

-- 

Daniel E. Lautenschleger
University of Wisconsin
R.M. Bock Laboratories
Network Administrator and Computer Support
[email-masked]

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From: Carsten Neumann <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 20:29:56 +0100

> The RPM version is /etc/rc.d/init.d/atalk

Haeh?
This is the startscript!
Usage:
/etc/rc.d/init.d/atalk {start|stop|restart|status}

> Anyone know what gives?

Regards

	Carsten

---

From: "Daniel E. Lautenschleger" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:41:55 -0600 (CST)

That is true for the RPM version, but the atalk script is not present when
compiling from source.

-Dan

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From: Francis Lachapelle <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:51:25 -0500 (EST)

>From the README file of the source of version 1.5pre3:

    The file rc.atalk is installed in ETCDIR.  It should be called
    from your /etc/rc file, e.g. "sh ETCDIR/rc.atalk".

Mine was in /etc/atalk which I moved to /etc/rc.d/init.d

[francis@chicgeek ~]$ od -c -N 120 /dev/random > ~/.signature

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From: "Daniel E. Lautenschleger" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:51:58 -0600 (CST)

I did a find / -name rc.atalk after installing at it was not present. I
looked and it was not in /etc/atalk either.

Strange.

-Dan

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From: Francis Lachapelle <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:09:51 -0500 (EST)

> looked and it was not in /etc/atalk either.

oops. I forgot to mention that you need to add the option
"--enable-redhat" when running configure.

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From: jeff <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:08:48 -0500

> That is true for the RPM version, but the atalk script is not present when

Use --enable-redhat to get the redhat script.

jeff

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From: "Daniel E. Lautenschleger" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:13:30 -0600 (CST)

You've got to be kidding me...

What the heck does --enable-redhat do? In fact, where the hell is complete
documentation on the various installation options as well as what's been
fixed after each release!!!!!!

Not trying to piss anyone off. Jeff has done a fine job so far :-) It
justs gets frustrating at times.

No flaming please. Just a bit of venting. I am now patient and
grateful once again...

-Dan

--

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From: jeff <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:30:06 -0500

> No flaming please. Just a bit of venting. I am now patient and

That's okay. I'm not offended.

I *know* that documentation is lacking, other than the usually unhelpful
"./configure --help", which still doesn't explain much about the
options.

If anyone would like to help out, it would be much appreciated, since
the README was last slightly patched when I had a little bit of free
time, and I haven't really had time to maintain it.

Might move the --enable-redhat,--enable-suse, etc switches to
--enable-sysv=(redhat|suse|...) or something in the future, since a ton
of switches like that is just bound to get confusing.

jeff
(with tremendous apologies for the cross-posting)

---

From: "Daniel E. Lautenschleger" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:03:52 -0600 (CST)

Jeff:

I would love to help out and assemble documentation that would ease
installation/operational issues. The problem is, I don't fully understand
what changes have been made since the whole shebang got moved to
sourceforge and truly what all the options and challenges are for the
various installs on the different platforms.

If you have a general direction or thoughts of how I might proceed, I
am more than willing to help out. I've thought for quite some time that
there are not enough people helping you out.

Here's another thought meant to be non-offensive:

You for the courage and talent, have signed on to administor the Netatalk
project on SourceForge. Therefore, you need to spell out *exactly* what
areas you need help with (besides documentation) and say I need someone to
do this, somone to do this other thing, etc... and approach it that way.

Who are the current members of the team that are strong at programming?
Who is good at writing documentation? Who can communicate on a regular
basis regarding bugs that need to be resolved? Is it even a bug? Who is
going to regularly respond to people in the help forum (besides other
users) to assist with simple and/or major issues?

I gues we need some structure added to the SourceForge site and I'm as
guilty as anyone else for not doing more to promote this as I have signed
up as developer. Well, I suck at C but I don't mind doing some
administrative work if you'd like me to.

Just some thoughts that I think may move us forward with a more
presentable operation as v1.5 release approaches.

Tell ya' what, rather than rambling any longer, I will seriously examine
what I think needs to happen with regard to making a more effective
SourceForge presence over the weekend and present you with my ideas next
week via e-mail.

I can stop my complaining and contribute that energy to the project :-)

Sorry for the ramblings...

-Dan

-- 

Daniel E. Lautenschleger
University of Wisconsin
R.M. Bock Laboratories

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From: Kip Perkins <[email-masked]>
Date: 24 Feb 2001 03:46:41 +0600

unsubscribe

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From: "Marc J. Miller" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 21:42:29 -0800

So far, it has been pretty much fixing anything we see needs to be fixed 
and adding what features we'd like to see.  Myself, I'd love to see 
dropkludge get fixed, but the reason I stopped working on it was that I ran 
out of ideas on how to fix it and I ran out of time to work on it.  I've 
got other duties to attend to before I change occupations in about a month.

---

From: "Daniel E. Lautenschleger" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 08:43:24 -0600 (CST)

I think many folks would like to see dropkludge, a DID database, and the
feature that allows files created in netatalk volumes to have the same
ownership and permissions as the parent (correct)?

Maybe a "hit list" of items that need fixing by v1.5 release?

If someone can (with detail) spell out the items that need fixing so we
all understand each problem, folks can begin working on these items.

Can we make a list on the site for developers to see what needs fixing and
what's fixed as time progresses?

-Dan

-- 

Daniel E. Lautenschleger
University of Wisconsin
R.M. Bock Laboratories

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From: Chip Mefford <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 12:41:28 -0500 (EST)

On Sat, 24 Feb 2001, Daniel E. Lautenschleger wrote:

> I think many folks would like to see dropkludge, 

What's Dropkludge? I assume it is some kludge to mimic the
AppleShare Server "drop box" world write/owner rwx thingee.

This would be very nice, but it seems a bit strange. I simply
gave up and created a directory below home with subdirs for all
my users with group rw for "users" and symlinked it to the home
directories. Make a little script to add it automagicly at user
creation time. Everyone of course can read everyone elses "drop
box" but that makes it no different from those mailboxes up at
the receptionists desk. 

I have department specific shares set up for accounting and management
and the like to keep prying eyes out of sensitive stuff, so it
is sort of an answer. 

Would be nice to have the AppleShare Server Dropbox though, as folks
were used to it. 

>a DID database, 

What's a DID database? 

>and the

Yes, that would be really nice, but again, by setting the sticky bit
for group, and having folks "copy" over onto the server rather than
creating on the server, this seems to work out okay.

---

From: "Marc J. Miller" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 12:23:53 -0800

>AppleShare Server "drop box" world write/owner rwx thingee.

That's how it started... I eventually discovered that the same permission 
handling that was preventing Dropboxes from working was also creating other 
bugs.  So I made the changes universal.  It not only maintains rwx 
permissions, but it also makes sure that every file created within a 
directory has the same owner and group as the directory itself.  That's 
what Mac expects.  Unfortunately, I've run into a couple of difficulties -- 
a known security hole which is extremely well-documented on Sourceforge 
(check the DocManager) and a difficulty that when someone drops a folder 
into a dropbox, the dropped folder also becomes a dropbox, owned by whoever 
dropped it there.  That's related to the setgid being set on the dropbox 
and permission inheritance.

>box" but that makes it no different from those mailboxes up at

I'm glad that works for you.  I created dropkludge to deal with student 
homework submission, so a situation where everyone can read everyone else's 
stuff simply wasn't acceptable.  But as I say, there were certain issues I 
simply couldn't figure out how to resolve.  I'm not completely out of 
ideas, but I *am* out of time.

>What's a DID database?

AppleShare tracks directories by directory ID number.  Trouble is, 
originally when afpd initialized, it would assign those DIDs and therefore 
every time afpd restarted, the DIDs would change.  A database to store 
those DIDs was created to make those assignments more permanent, but I 
understand its less than perfect.

>creating on the server, this seems to work out okay.

The sticky bit and the file ownership changes are part of dropkludge as 
described above.

> > Maybe a "hit list" of items that need fixing by v1.5 release?

We have a TODO list in the CVS.  That seems like a good starting point... 
perhaps someone (Jeff?!) could update the bug tracker with some of the info 
there and decide what bugs are critical, what bugs could wait for now, etc.

---

From: David Rouse <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 11:36:24 -0500

>ownership and permissions as the parent (correct)?

I haven't played with OS X yet, but how does Apple handle that situation
(files that have independent ownership)? They would be faced with it with OS
X.

I appologize if this has been raised before. I've just moved to Netatalk
from a commerical Unix AppleTalk package (at least for my home network), so
I'm new around here. And so far I've been pleased, the only trouble I've had
that I don't think is my fault is with aliases of volumes -- and that seems
to be a known issue.

-- 
drouse

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From: "Heath Henderson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 15:49:40 -0600

I am getting ready to set up a few new servers.  I have been reading a lot
lately about swap space.  One article reads keep it consistent with the
about of Physical Ram in the machine.  So this would mean if I have 256 MB
of Ram, I set the swap to 256.  But other articles read keep it consistent
up to 64 MB of Ram.  Do not set Swap space higher than 64mb.

I ask,  should I set the swap size above 64 if I have say 192/256/384/512 MB
of Ram installed? or should I make sure it sits at 64mb and nothing higher?
I want to this right this time.

Thanks

Heath Henderson

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From: jeff <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 15:46:08 -0500

> and permission inheritance.

Sorry about the lateness of this email.

Are you saying that there are security problems inherant in matching
file permissions to directory permissions, or that there specifically a
problem with matching file permissions to directory permissions where
they are world accessable ... ?

I only ask because I was looking at making dropkludge available by
share, which may be a good idea, but also may still pose a security
concern. What's your opinion on that?

--SNIP--

> there and decide what bugs are critical, what bugs could wait for now, etc.

I've been running through the bugs list, patching the ones I can, and
marking down the ones for 1.4b2 and other older versions.

If anyone else would like to help me run through the bugs list, it would
be much appreciated.

jeff

(as usual, with tremendous apologies for the cross-posting)

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From: Marc Miller <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:12:19 -0800 (PST)

I'd say RTFM, but briefly...

There is no problem with dropbox as long as you can avoid these scenarios:

* Dropping a folder into a dropbox
* Placing data in a dropbox that you wouldn't want any user with shell
access to be able to get to.  If they can guess the file name, they can
copy it right out.  I have a feeling it's because of the file being opened
RDWR when it only needs to be opened WR.  That way I could turn off
setting the world-read bit and the file would still write correctly.  But
I haven't had a chance to try that out.

> (as usual, with tremendous apologies for the cross-posting)

============================================================
	/\/\arc ._|. /\/\iller ([email-masked])
	Computer Room Consultant
	Information Technology/Lab Management
============================================================
I can be contacted through the Communication Center link from
http://www.mother.com/~mjmiller/

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From: C <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 15:40:22 -0600

> I want to this right this time.
This is really more a Server-Linux question rather than a Netatalk question,
but in any case...

Linux (at least I know fer sure RH does) has a 128MB swap partition size, so
using 256MB of swap space would require you make two separate partitions of
128MB each. How much swap your machine uses, of course, will completely
depend on the usage pattern for your particular site. If it helps, I have a
file server doing Samba, Netatalk, and printing  for about 250 users, 256MB
RAM, 128MB partition for swap, and it NEVER uses it's swap space (ok, ok, it
did use 300K of swap once). If you plan on running X on these servers, that
will use lots more RAM.

A better way to guage your needs is to go to an existing server (assuming
its linux), and run vmstat (see the man pages on vmstat for explanation) at
the busiest time of the day and work from there.

C.

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From: Rob Lineweaver <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 18:00:30 -0500 (EST)

> 128MB each. 

I know this is OT for this list, but the above statement is no longer
correct.  The swap size limitation is a kernel issue (so it is not
RH-specific), and it has been lifted since the beginning of the 2.2.x
kernel series (according to this document, the limit is now 2 GB for most
architectures: 
http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/swaptip2.html).  In other
words it has been fixed for years -- time to upgrade?

Rob Lineweaver
(happily running RH with a 300 MB swap partition, and Linux/PPC with 160
MB)

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From: Thomas Schierle <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 02:42:34 +0100

> * Dropping a folder into a dropbox

doesn't work for ASIP as well ... therefore getting DROPCLUDGE completely
operational would add a true unique feature to netatalk :-))

-- 
Thomas Schierle, Munich, Germany

PGP key [DSS/DH] 0xA23CDA1D available at various public key servers