Subject: Netatalk and OS9 Open Issues

From: "bryan stalcup" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 16:25:20 -0400

Hi!

i've got to setup a new server for mac and pc clients. i've been using netatalk-1.4b2+asun2.1.3-6.i386.rpm with redhat 6.0/6.1 for about a year now, primarily with OS8 clients, mostly 8.6. However, i have about 4 OS9 G4's on this new network, and i'm concerned. should i consider using win2k?

issues with the latest version as best i've been able to keep track of include:
1 DID's (primarily affects folder aliases, i can live with this problem for the time being)
2 case issues (i.e., This.txt and this.txt can coexist on the server, but not on the mac)
3 codepage issues (i've saved a recent email that showed a working netatalk/samba codepage setup, so this may go away)
4 quark file saving issues (not clear on what all the symptoms are, could someone elaborate?)
5 file locking issues (simultaneous access by a pc and a mac client leading to file corruption)
6 installation issues with redhat 6.2 (is there a site with detailed information on getting this working?)

any other issues i've missed?

thanks in advance

bryan stalcup

---

From: andrew morgan <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 14:06:13 -0700 (PDT)

> 2 case issues (i.e., This.txt and this.txt can coexist on the server,

This will always be a problem when you are sharing files between systems
with different case requirements.

> 3 codepage issues (i've saved a recent email that showed a working
> netatalk/samba codepage setup, so this may go away)

The 2.1.3-6 rpm should work fine if you add "alias net-pf-5 appletalk" to
/etc/conf.modules.

	Andy

---

From: Marcus Radich <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 09:37:06 +1200

At 4:25 PM -0400 4/5/2000, bryan stalcup wrote:
>Hi!
>
>i've got to setup a new server for mac and pc clients. i've been 
>using netatalk-1.4b2+asun2.1.3-6.i386.rpm with redhat 6.0/6.1 for 
>about a year now, primarily with OS8 clients, mostly 8.6. However, i 
>have about 4 OS9 G4's on this new network, and i'm concerned. should 
>i consider using win2k?

I have found netatalk 2.1.4 (with my slight makefile mods) runs 
faster than win2k on the same hardware. We are talking about a 
1.2MB/sec difference here. I must admit, I have a copy of Win2k 
server, but the only thing I found it really useful for is a Quake 
III arena server!!

>problem for the time being)

It is a problem

>server, but not on the mac)

Yes, it's a problem. you just need to educate your users.

>could someone elaborate?)

If you use 2.1.3, you WILL get quark saving problems on the new G4s. 
You need to use 2.1.4(latest) and turn off the new file locking code 
for quark to work properly. I have several servers with this setup 
working fine. I have posted the detail to this mailing list several 
times, have a look through the archives.

>leading to file corruption)

unsure...???

>information on getting this working?)

Again, look through the archives, there is a simple fix for this.

-- 
========================================================

"Always ask the question, never assume the answer."
		Marcus Radich 1999

========================================================

---

From: Stephen Welker <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 12:02:02 +1000

on 5/5/00 6:25 AM, bryan stalcup wrote:

> i've got to setup a new server for mac and pc clients. i've been using
> netatalk-1.4b2+asun2.1.3-6.i386.rpm with redhat 6.0/6.1 for about a year now,
> primarily with OS8 clients, mostly 8.6. However, i have about 4 OS9 G4's on
> this new network, and i'm concerned. should i consider using win2k?

Bryan,

Please see other message as for the points you directly raise. For the Win2k
issue I offer the following.

After talking to a MCSE today, Win2k will NOT provide any benefits what so
ever over alternatives, if fact it could be argued that it would be a
downgrade.

(1) Win2k does not support AppleShare/IP - not even supported on NT 4.

(2) Microsoft has not given an undertaking that it will improve SFM
(Services For Macintosh), that is at least implement AppleShare/IP.

(3) There is not any active technical support (for that matter development)
for SFM - may be they wish for it to just simply disappear?

(4) Inhouse support for SFM by MS technicians can easily result in the
situation that I have experinced recently - where copying a large file to
the server would result in a "Blue Screen Of Death" (crash). The only
response from the technicians was "not NT, not interested". MS TechNet did
not give any meaningful answers either. Thus, you will likely be on your
own.

Simply, if you want vendor support for file sharing between Macs and PCs
then consider: MacOS X or Helios, et al.

If you don't mind doing it yourself then Netatalk and Samba are the way to
go. With Netatalk use the latest asun2.1.4 release as it has fixed may bugs
and provides AppleShare/IP (efficiency is much higher ~70%-100%).

-- 
Stephen

---

From: Harry Zink/Netatalk List <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 21:39:49 -0700

> (1) Win2k does not support AppleShare/IP - not even supported on NT 4.

This was one of the promised features a year ago at MS meetings. Are you
absolutely certain that ASIP services are not included in Win2K?

It wouldn't surprise me to see MS drop yet another promised feature, but I'm
really curious if this was dropped.

Harry

---

From: Stephen Welker <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 15:03:07 +1000

> really curious if this was dropped.

Given that MS can/may change feature lists between Final Beta and Golden
Master (eg Windows95?) the only certain way to know is to *actually* install
it and test it.

Vapourware is a big problem in the MS world.

I do know that NT4 does NOT support ASIP - personal experience and lots of
BSODs.

Again, talking to Windows technicians may NOT shed any light - trying to
find Mac friendly/knowledgable technicians a rare. The MCSE I talked to the
other day, started his career on Macs.

So when it comes to support or a knowledgable technical community - Netatalk
may be far in advance of what MS Win2k can offer.

-- 
Stephen Welker

---

From: Phil Wenzlawski <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 08:43:16 +0200

> I do know that NT4 does NOT support ASIP - personal experience and lots of

that's not true ! windows 2000 server supports appletalk over tcp/ip.
i've
tested it on a german version of win2k server and it worked and served
well !
i had the same tranfer rates like on my linux-netatalk box !!!

but even if win2k does this i don't want a pure file-server on windows
nt for
stable reasons. and my boss don't want serveral services (fax etc etc)
to be
added on the file server ;)

peace

phil

---

From: Harry Zink/Netatalk List <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 08:30:11 -0700

> I do know that NT4 does NOT support ASIP - personal experience and lots of

Yes, I know that as well, and that has been one of the major reasons why I
was able to get people to even look at netatalk/Linux - yet they have all
been waiting for Win2K for that very reason...

> find Mac friendly/knowledgable technicians a rare.

Agreed.

> The MCSE I talked to the

Good start, but was he absolutely certain as well?

> the only certain way to know is to *actually* install
> it and test it.

I guess I'll just have to break down and install this copy of Win2K finally
on some box and see for myself. I'll let the list know.

> may be far in advance of what MS Win2k can offer.

Wholeheartedly agreed, but try to explain that the usual bonehead IS/IT
manager...

Harry

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From: Harry Zink/Netatalk List <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 08:32:00 -0700

on 5/8/00 11:43 PM, Phil Wenzlawski at [email-masked] wrote:

> i've tested it on a german version of win2k server and it worked and served
> well ! i had the same tranfer rates like on my linux-netatalk box !!!

Thanks for clarifying this...

> and my boss don't want serveral services (fax etc etc)
> to be  added on the file server ;)

So, in all fainress, can't you just delete those un-needed services?

Tschüss,

Harry

---

From: "David Lancaster" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 07:44:49 -0300

>From Win2k Pro (not server) help file...
AppleTalk
Networking on an Apple Macintosh computer is implemented through the
AppleTalk protocol. Applications and processes can communicate across a
single AppleTalk network or an AppleTalk internet, which is a number of
interconnected AppleTalk networks. By using AppleTalk, applications and
processes can transfer and exchange data and share resources, such as
printers and file servers. AppleTalk remote access is supported by the
AppleTalk Control Protocol (ATCP).

With ATCP, Macintosh clients can run the AppleTalk network protocol over the
Point-to-Point Protocol (PPP). With ATCP support, a remote user can access a
Web server over TCP/IP, print a document to an AppleTalk printer, and
connect to a Macintosh file server (over TCP/IP or AppleTalk), all with the
same dial-up connection over PPP.

For information about configuring a connection, see To configure a
connection.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Welker" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Cc: "Harry Zink/Netatalk List" <[email-masked]>; "bryan stalcup"
<[email-masked]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: Netatalk and OS9 Open Issues