Subject: The facts about Samba and netatalk

From: "Kevin M. Myer" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 14:50:39 -0500 (EST)

Hello,

I have some observations and questions about the interactions (present and
future) of Samba and netatalk.  I'm deploying a cross-platform file server
that currently is running netatalk 1.4.99X and Samba 2.0.7.  Despite the
fact that majority of our users use only one platform, I'm afraid that we
might end up with problems if users jump around from Mac to PC and
manipulate and move files around on both platforms.  Since users have
access to their home directories, as well as a departmental and public
directory, I'd like to come up with a solution that allows for the proper
relocation of all the netatalk meta-files (.AppleDesktop, .AppleDouble and
friends) when a file is moved, renamed, or deleted with Samba.

I'm well aware of the --with-netatalk switch in samba - I naively used it
for a year, thinking that it did something.  However, after running some
tests and exploring the code last month, I've found it doesn't do anything
at all, expect include a bunch of functions to deal with netatalk's
meta-files.  The functions are _never_ called anywhere (they exist only in
source/lib/netatalk.c) and are also incomplete and haven't been touched
since 1998.  I've seen netatalk archives with suggestions to compile samba
with the --with-netatalk option - they are bogus answers because
unfortunately, the support was never completed.  I've suggested to the
Samba developers to remove that option from the configure script, since
its potentially very confusing.

I've contemplated what it would take to complete the support for netatalk
in Samba and have been advised that in its current state (2.0.X and the
2.2.X branches), it would be difficult since the normal move, rename and
delete functions are scattered throughout the code.  However, there
apparently exists, in the HEAD (3.X) branch, support for plugins which
would easily allow the creation of a plugin that would implement the
netatalk meta-files.

Since 3.X is probably a long way off, and I need to run something stable,
I plan to stick with 2.0.X, at least until 2.2.X is released (I also want
LDAP support but thats not promised until a later 2.2.X release so I guess
I'll have to maintain /etc/smbpasswd separately from my LDAP entries -
grr).

I'm wondering:
 
1)  What folks have done, if anything, to keep a Samba user from
moving a file that has a resource fork and borking things up for a Mac
user that tries to use it later on, sans resource fork?

2)  Any interest in trying to implement this for the 2.X branch (there's
got to be some guillibl.. er I mean brave soul out there.. :)

3)  Any thoughts on implementing a plugin for the 3.X branch?

On a slightly different note, another feature that I've thought about is
file locking and how to make sure that a Mac user doesn't move or delete a
file in use by a Samba user and vice versa.  Is there any feasability at
all to the notion of implimenting the same locking style for netatalk that
Samba uses, so the two can share locks?  I'm sure the locking style
currently used is not mutually compatible but it would be great if both
file sharing protocols behaved and respected one another.

I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts on integration issues.

Thanks,

Kevin
-- 
Kevin M. Myer
Systems Administrator
Lancaster-Lebanon Intermediate Unit 13
(717)-560-6140

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From: "lists-mail" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 00:13:32 -0000

> I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts on integration issues.

I too have thought of this, I also have added complexity of developers on 
Linux boxes using NFS to access some of the shared files. I have on one box 
NFS, Netatalk, Samba all wanting access to the same thing.

I had mentioned this to one of my developers in passing, "I wish there was 
just one way to do this" and heard the reply "IPX!" from accross the room.

Flame me later but I have to say this........   Given that most Linux boxes 
have smb.mount available, could the netatalk team not throw in with the Samba 
team, and create ONE solution for everyone?

DAve

-

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From: Matthew Keller <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 19:59:25 -0500

> team, and create ONE solution for everyone?

	I recommended this a while ago as well... Once filesystem I/O library,
with different frontends- One for ASIP/AT, one for SMB... There was some
pleasant banter, but no one really bit.

-- 

 Matthew Keller
 WebMaster, Interim Network Manager & 
   Host Systems Analyst
 Distributed Computing/Telemedia
 Information Services Division
 State University of New York at Potsdam
 
 Website: http://mattwork.potsdam.edu/
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