Subject: ASIP

From: "Michael" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 13:34:35 -0800

How does one force all connections to be IP rather than atalk.

Michael
[email-masked]

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From: Patrik Schindler <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 02:39:09 +0200 (MEST)

> How does one force all connections to be IP rather than atalk.

Why do you want to force?
If your Mac's configured right, all connections will automatically be
IP. AppleTalk Connections will only be established if IP fails. You will
see that through a significant delay when double-clicking a server within
the chooser.

If you connect via an alias and get an AppleTalk only connection, your
alias is probably broken - create it anew. I don't know why this happens
from time to time at least to me.

:wq! PoC

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From: "Michael" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 17:08:43 -0800

> If your Mac's configured right, all connections will automatically
> be IP. 

This relates back to the original problem of the ddp connection being 
dropped and the child remaining active -- thus using up the available 
children. There is definetly something broken, but can't figure out 
what it is. I was trying to side step the problem by only using ASIP, 
but the older macs won't cooperate (of course). I believe the problem 
is on the linux side, since I have two machines at different netatalk 
levels that do it, and one that does not (much older with isa cards). 
I've read somewhere that once upon a time there was a problem with 
the tulip.c driver and am wondering if that somehow is contributing 
to this problem. What I don't understand is why the child afpd 
process does not close when the connection terminates -- bug in 
afpd?? Granted, the connection should not terminate at all, but if it 
does at least the child should clean itself up.

Any insight into the dropped connection issue would be greatly 
appreciated. 

hosts.allow has afpd atalkd : subnet : allow line
afpd.conf is blank
atalkd.conf is blank
host is single homed
os 2.2.14 - netatalk asun 2.1.3
os 2.2.7 - netatalk vanilla 1.42b
both exhibit the same dropout characteristics, 
both us tulip pci cards, haven't tried another vendor yet

[email-masked]

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From: Patrik Schindler <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 03:33:58 +0200 (MEST)

On Tue, 28 Mar 2000, Michael wrote:

> children.

I cannot replicate your problem. Sorry.
> What I don't understand is why the child afpd 

It does here.

Did you install an precompiled version or did you try to compile it
yourself?

> both us tulip pci cards, haven't tried another vendor yet

I'm using here, too. No problems.

:wq! PoC

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From: Kevin White <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 23:23:30 -0500

>see that through a significant delay when double-clicking a server within

Question: how does one configure a Mac "right"?

I have one Mac hooked up to one Linux PC, and when I do "-noddp" on Linux, 
the Netatalk server doesn't show up on the Mac's browser list, so I was 
under the assumption that browsing only works on AppleTalk.  Is that wrong?

What is "right"?  Should I be able to browse and see an IP only Netatalk box?

Where do I go to learn all this stuff?  (And more: for instance, 
seeding?  How does it relate if I'm trying to go all IP?  And where do I 
learn about it at all, period?)

(I know TCP/IP, and am familiar with PCs and NetBIOS...but AppleTalk is 
foreign to me.  I've limped along so far, but I know there's gaping holes 
here in my knowledge, and I want to know where to look.)

Kevin

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From: Patrik Schindler <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 18:16:22 +0200

>Question: how does one configure a Mac "right"?

Question back: How much do you know about TC/IP networking?
If you configured this right, you'll have IP.

>under the assumption that browsing only works on AppleTalk.  Is that wrong?

Browsing only works with AppleTalk, this is right.

>What is "right"?  Should I be able to browse and see an IP only Netatalk box?

Nope, you cannot see it.
But if you establish via Browsing a connection, the Mac gets told that he can also try via IP and does so if you have OpenTransport and a recent AppleShare Version running. So you have both: Comfort and Speed :-)

>seeding?

Hm, I read the Netware for Macintosh Book which explained in great detail what's going on with AppleTalk. But I think there are more (take a look at www.ora.com).

But it's like with all Networking:

1. All Hosts in a Subnet must have distinct addresses
2. Interconnected Subnets (via a Router) must have distinct network adresses.
3. The Hosts in a Subnet must know the gateway (router) address go get packets outside

1. is automatic with AppleTalk and IPX
2. is never automatic (okay, I don't know any protocol)
3. is automatic with AppleTalk and IPX and doesn't work with NetBEUI

All remaining is the concept of network and host addresses:

AppleTalk Phase 2 uses ranges from 0-65535 as network address. AppleTalk Phase 1 used only one address per Subnet. One or more hosts may choose (automatically) a distinct or not distinct address out of the pool of a given range and (if they do the latter) they get distincted via socket numbers. So it's enough to seed (declare as routed) a net with this much numbers as you (will some time) have Macs in it. The Gateway is found automatically because AppleTalk routes maintain a list of routes internally via RTMP.

IPX uses the MAC (Hardware Adress of the Ethernet Interface) as Host Address and one hexadecimal number per subnet (I don't know the highest number). Gateways were discovered automatically via RIP.

IP uses ranges from 1-4228250624 (0.0.0.1 - 255.255.255.254) as network address. A host must be chosen a unique address in a given range (semi-automatic via DHCP, bootp or the admin). To separate the network from the host adress, there is a netmask, wich is Bit-ANDed to the host-address to get the network base number. Gateways may be found via a routing protocol or set by hand.

>here in my knowledge, and I want to know where to look.)

I think, there are some resources on the net. The official netatalk homepage at http://www.umich.edu/~rsug/netatalk/ is a good starting point.

:wq! PoC

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From: Kevin White <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:20:53 -0500

>If you configured this right, you'll have IP.

I read further last night and realized this...it will use AppleTalk, then 
reconnect with TCP/IP if it can.  I verified that using NetStat...

Thanks for the info!

>Nope, you cannot see it.
>But if you establish via Browsing a connection, the Mac gets told that he 
>can also try via IP and does so if you have OpenTransport and a recent 
>AppleShare Version running. So you have both: Comfort and Speed :-)

Wow...sometimes, Apple does the Right Thing, eh?  :)

>All remaining is the concept of network and host addresses:

I need to digest this some more...thanks for the info.

>I think, there are some resources on the net. The official netatalk 
>homepage at http://www.umich.edu/~rsug/netatalk/ is a good starting point.

I had read through most of what was out there.  Today, I found all sorts of 
stuff on Open Transport and AppleShare at Apple's web site.  There is still 
some stuff missing, but I think it could be in the 25 meg SDK I d/l'ed.  I 
need to open that up and see what docs are in there.

Again, thanks for all the info.

Kevin

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From: Patrik Schindler <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 08:51:59 +0200 (MEST)

> Wow...sometimes, Apple does the Right Thing, eh?  :)

Apple is not THAT bad. Okay, today this might look a bit harder to
understand ;-)

> I need to digest this some more...thanks for the info.

If you have any questions, tell.

> Again, thanks for all the info.

No Prob.

:wq! PoC