Subject: Sourceforge and CVS (was Re: Re: NFS Under OS X (was Re: pre-asun2.1.4-39) )

From: "jeff b" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 15:36:04 +0000 (GMT)

On Sun, 23 Jul 2000 [email-masked] wrote:
> > From:    andrew morgan <[email-masked]>
> > To:      Harry Zink/Netatalk List <[email-masked]>
> 
> > There have been some discussions about a future home for netatalk at
> > SourceForge or Suse (UMich people, can you comment further on this?). 
> > I could start the SourceForge site, but I'm not very familiar with
> > their services and I have no experience with CVS.
> 
> I haven't heard anything from the suse people in a while.  As you
> stated, netatalk is in need of some 1) release engineering and 2) bug
> fixes.  Both the asun and umich sources have been available a long time
> -- the availability of the umich source is what allowed asun to make
> changes available.
> 
> It doesn't seem like creating a netatalk SourceForge site will add
> AppleTalk/Unix engineers.  If suse wants to contribute engineers, that
> would be helpful.  If any one else wants to contribute his or her
> talent, the netatalk community will respond as we have all witnessed on
> this list.

But it *would* provide a CVS repository. Having one central person that all
patches have to go through is a pain when working with distributed
development. It's much easier being able to use CVS. Sourceforge also hosts
bug tracking and all sorts of other resources -- it would be nice to have
those for netatalk.
     
*************************
jeff b
system administrator
university communications
university of connecticut
[email-masked]

---

From: Ryan McBeth <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 11:59:48 -0400

>bug tracking and all sorts of other resources -- it would be nice to have

I just e-mailed Wesley Craig @ UMich .  I think I just volunteered to 
to be that very person!  Unless there is someone out there who wants 
to do it instead.

Hell, I'd be Netatalk's head cheerleader if it's needed.  My company 
just *wouldn't exist* if it wasn't for netatalk. We use Netatalk for 
developing off of our linux box and serving out beta websites.  We 
don't have the money for something else, and NT's IIS (as far as I 
know) can't do name-based virtual hosting like Apache, which is 
essential in a design house like mine.

What we really need to do is get netatalk.org up and running and 
start contacting Redhat, Debian, and Caldera.  Get them to start 
including Netatalk into their distros.

	We might not be as big as Samba, but if there's one thing Mac 
users know how to do it's put on a show.

	Ryan

__________________________________
Ryan McBeth
Systems Administrator, Mobius New Media
Voice: (302) 475-9880 x11
FAX: (302) 475-9894
www.mobiusnm.com
__________________________________
If you want to achieve excellence, you can get there today. As of 
this second, quit doing less-than-excellent work.
-Thomas Watson, founder of IBM

---

From: "Radar O'Reilly" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 12:35:24 -0400 (EDT)

> including Netatalk into their distros.

Err, don't they?
I've got a stock RedHat 6.2 box, and it has netatalk. I've never installed
Debian or Caldera, but netatalk seems to be among the standard things to
install....

 __________/| Nathan "Radar" Willard MC '00     | "A Sucking Chest Wound is
(_|__|_____\|________      PO Box 203927        |   nature's way of telling 
     |_|_____________)- New Haven, CT 06520     |     you to slow down."

---

From: Harry Zink/Netatalk List <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 10:13:58 -0700

> Debian or Caldera, but netatalk seems to be among the standard things to

Huh..? Are you sure that you don't mean that it has the *AppleTalk* stack
installed, which is different from *netatalk*. All of them have some sort of
AppleTalk support, but you need netatalk in order to actually use it.

In fact, a stick RedHat 6.2 box, while it has AppleTalk installed, does no
longer, by default, activate it upon restart thanks to some boneheaded
decision at RedHat, I'm sure.

Getting various distros to support netatalk would be a step in the right
direction - I'd vote to get Mandrake to support it first, since they are
usually cutting edge, and RedHat follows-suit with whatever they do...

Harry

---

From: andrew morgan <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 10:11:59 -0700 (PDT)

> to be that very person!  Unless there is someone out there who wants 

Flip a coin.  I was just about to start a sourceforge site myself, but if
you have *any* experience with sourceforge or CVS, you'd be more qualified
than I.  So who will it be?

	Andy

---

From: Harry Zink/Netatalk List <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 10:17:35 -0700

on 7/24/00 8:59 AM, Ryan McBeth at [email-masked] wrote:

> What we really need to do is get netatalk.org up and running

Well, that depends on who owns the netatalk.org domain, and who has done
nothing with it - not even a redirect.

> and 

Getting inclusion in one of the major distros will be a good first step -
question - what version should that be? pre37 or pre39? Can anyone fix the
disabled charset thingy in those first, and then create a ready-to-use RPM?

The problem really is that the only existing netatalk RPM is hopelessly
outdated so far.

Harry

---

From: Ryan McBeth <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 13:14:58 -0400

>I've got a stock RedHat 6.2 box, and it has netatalk. I've never installed
<SNIP>

	Radar,

	Humm... I feel like a SCSI device.  The I/O is running 
without accessing the processor.
	Maybe I mispoke.  I'm running Red Hat 6.0, and I don't recall 
netatalk being one of RPMs on the CD.  As far as I know, if you walk 
into CompUSA, you won't find Netatalk as one of the bullet points on 
the side of the box.  Whereas you will probably find Samba.  Of 
course, more people use Windows than Mac, so I can understand that.

	I think that it would be more popular if only it were a 
little more organized and mentioned more in Slashdot and the rest of 
the community.  Maybe I can try and change that, but I'm just a 
SysAdmin from a small Media company who just wants is Mac Artists to 
stop complaining!

	I'll tell you one thing, I think we're going to need more 
cheerleaders than quarterbacks in this game.  Heck, the whole stadium 
needs to start cheering.

	Ryan

---

From: Harry Zink/Netatalk List <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 10:19:54 -0700

> What we really need to do is get netatalk.org up and running

If I may suggest to contact the owner of NETATALK.COM instead, since I have
a feeling that he may be quite motivated to support such an effort.

Harry

---

From: "Michael J. Flynn" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 13:36:16 -0400 (EDT)

> a feeling that he may be quite motivated to support such an effort.

Well a whois search on NSI's site indicates that netatalk.net is still
available at the time of this email. Also it looks like netatalk.org is
owned by umich.

Laters

mike flynn - [email-masked]
The Company Store - http://www.magpage.com/~flynnmj/tcs.html

          Brought to you by <B>Team SPAM!</B> where we believe:
                   <I>"Information in the noise!"</I>

---

From: "Jonathan Newman" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 10:50:48 -0700

> nothing with it - not even a redirect.

Hmmm...

Registrant:
RSUG -- Wes Craig (NETATALK2-DOM)
   535 W. William St.
   Ann Arbor, MI 48103
   US

   Domain Name: NETATALK.ORG

   Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact, Billing Contact:
      University of Michigan Hostmaster  (UM17-ORG)  [email-masked]
      University of Michigan -- ITD
      535 West William Street
      Ann Arbor, MI 48103
      US
      +1 734 763-0595  Fax- +1 734 764-5140Fax- - +1 313 764-5140
      Fax- - +1 734 764-5140
      Fax- - +1 313 764-5140

   Record last updated on 01-Sep-1998.
   Record expires on 01-Sep-2000.
   Record created on 01-Sep-1998.
   Database last updated on 24-Jul-2000 00:28:40 EDT.

   Domain servers in listed order:

   DNS.ITD.UMICH.EDU		141.211.144.15
   DNS2.ITD.UMICH.EDU		141.211.125.15

---

From: Jürgen Weltzer <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 20:25:23 +0100

>The problem really is that the only existing netatalk RPM is hopelessly

I've bought Suse 6.3 (german version, if there is a difference??) In 
this package is netatalk 14b2 + asun2.1.3-30.
I choose "server-installation" and all packages are installed. Fine 
for a Newbee :)
But I have the - now well known - problems. Is my netatalk version an 
oldie? And: where can I get newer versions? And: am I able to install 
it? Or do I need a high-payed installation service?

-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Jürgen Weltzer

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Werbeagentur Weltzer
Max-Eyth-Straße 8
71065 Sindelfingen
Tel. +49 (0) 70.31.81.32.31
Fax +49 (0) 70.31.81.16.01
http://www.w-ww.de/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

---

From: "Marc J. Miller" <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 12:40:45 -0700

Debian includes netatalk.  I've got it at home; was thinking that I could
test some things at home before bringing them to the Red Hat server at work,
but I haven't actually done anything with it at home.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Radar O'Reilly" <[email-masked]>
To: <[email-masked]>
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: Sourceforge and CVS (was Re: Re: NFS Under OS X (was Re:
pre-asun2.1.4-39) )

Err, don't they?

---

From: Harry Zink/Netatalk List <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 14:33:57 -0700

on 7/24/00 12:25 PM, Jürgen Weltzer at [email-masked]
wrote:

> oldie? 

Yep, it's a bit outdated.

> And: where can I get newer versions? And: am I able to install

Thanks to jeffb, you can grab it from here:

http://test.pr.uconn.edu/i586RPMS/

(Haven't tried them yet, but give it a go).

Harry

---

From: Harry Zink/Netatalk List <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 14:35:08 -0700

> available at the time of this email. Also it looks like netatalk.org is

NETATALK.COM is owned by a buddy of mine who got it for exactly that purpose
- to provide a centralized address for the effort. at one point .com and
.net where owned by UMICH as well, but they let it lapse - I'm sure there's
a story behind that.

Just contact Steve regarding that domain.

Harry

---

From: bryan stalcup <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 18:54:59 -0400

i've tried these with redhat 6.2, work great, just one question: where
-DUSE_FLOCK_LOCKS turned off (commented out) in the rpm spec file? just
want to make sure before i install it on a production server.

thanks!

bryan stalcup

---

From: Harry Zink/Netatalk List <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 16:17:25 -0700

> want to make sure before i install it on a production server.

I have no idea - jeffb did the RPMs, not I, so he'd be the one to ask.

Harry
-- 
CAN'T SEE MAC IN CHOOSER UNDER RedHat 6.2: If you get errors starting
AppleTalk under RedHat 6.2 and Mandrake 7.1, you need to manually add "alias
net-pf-5 appletalk" to your /etc/conf.modules file.

---

From: Marcus Radich <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 12:13:18 +1200

>  > want to make sure before i install it on a production server.

Yes, this is the problem with binary rpms vs source. rpm=no control, 
get what you are given. where as source=unlimited control, build what 
you like!

There is no option for this in any rpm because it is a compile time option.

Anyway, get the source, and the change needs to be made in the 
makefile for linux, which is in 
netatalk-1.4b2+asunxxx/sys/linux/Makefile

add
DEFS= -DUSE_FLOCK_LOCKS
and recompile.

done.

========================================================

"Always ask the question, never assume the answer."
		Marcus Radich 1999

========================================================

---

From: Jürgen Weltzer <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 13:03:05 +0100

>>  (Haven't tried them yet, but give it a go).

Make a click on the "download-file" opens this, 
http://test.pr.uconn.edu/i586RPMS/netatalk-1.4b2+asun2.1.4pre39-5mdk.i586.rpm
and in netscape it seems to be an audio player?? am I'm making something wrong?

-- 
Viele Grüße
Jürgen Weltzer

Windows95/98/NT (noun): 32 bit extension and a graphical shell for a 16 bit
patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit
microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that can't stand 1 bit of
competition

---

From: andrew morgan <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 06:57:48 -0700 (PDT)

> and in netscape it seems to be an audio player?? am I'm making

You've probably got .rpm associated with RealPlayer.  Just right-click on
the link and choose Save Link As... from the menu.

	Andy

---

From: Harry Zink/Netatalk List <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 08:04:39 -0700

> get what you are given. where as source=unlimited control, build what

/RANT ON/

yadda, yadda, RPM are bad, yadda, yadda, only source is good, yadda, yadda,
(insert random "source is the tool of Gods" argument here)

Look, we ALL know the pros and cons of RPMs, but, guess what, there are
specific applications, and some people like to use, surprise, RPMs.

> There is no option for this in any rpm because it is a compile time option.

Wow, maybe that's why this user is ASKING about it - what a concept,
gathering information.

The RPM *COULD* provide this information (what compile-time options are
used) in the information block. A .src. RPM could even, conceivably, provide
conditional compile options during a an automated build of the RPM - so,
please, don't make claims about what RPMs can and cannot do.

So, since I am probably not the only one who is getting tired by the "RPMs
are all bad" faction, could we please *NOT* use any RPM question that pops
up as a soapbox for a personal vendetta against RPM use. You like to roll
your own - that's great - at least understand (or try to) that not everyone
shares that enthusiasm, or need.

/RANT OFF/

-Harry

---

From: Harry Zink/Netatalk List <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 08:07:12 -0700

> and in netscape it seems to be an audio player?? am I'm making something

Just right-click/ctrl-click the link and do a 'save as...' - let me guess,
you're not downloading it directly to the linux box you're going to install
it on?

Harry

---

From: Magnus Stenman <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 21:35:06 +0200

If that particular web server isn't serving RealAudio stuff, it
might be a good idea to change its MIME type mapping for .rpm files.

I wonder if for example apache can do this on a re-directory basis..

/magnus

-- 
 Magnus Stenman   mailto:[email-masked]   http://www.hkust.se

 Get it up, keep it up.  Linux -- Viagra for your PC

---

From: Marcus Radich <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 08:49:29 +1200

Thanks for your comments Harry. But before you launched into your 
overreactive rant, maybe you should have read a weee bit further 
where I offered the user a solution to the issue. I have reposted it 
for you reference.

<REPOST>

add
DEFS= -DUSE_FLOCK_LOCKS
and recompile.

done.
</REPOST>

---

From: Harry Zink/Netatalk List <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 22:32:06 -0700

on 7/30/00 1:49 PM, Marcus Radich at [email-masked] wrote:

> But before you launched into your
> overreactive rant

Not really over-reactive, since this was not the first such "RPMs are evil"
rant to launch me...

> maybe you should have read a weee bit further
> where I offered the user a solution to the issue.

Yeah, that was the one "Abandon RPM, use source, compile", right? Did I miss
the RPM based solution in there?

> Anyway, get the source

Yep.

Thanks for the help, though.

Harry

---

From: Jürgen Weltzer <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 09:48:13 +0100

>Just right-click/ctrl-click the link and do a 'save as...' -

Thanks, I've got it.

>let me guess,

Yeah, I'm in the Internet with a mac. I would like, one day, to do 
this with the linux box but at the moment I have to run it without 
damaging files.

I installed the downloaded rpm with yast from Suse. Without any 
problem. I think, for "only users", the (well done) rpms are good 
solutions.

Now I'm running netatalk 1.4b2+asun2.1.4pre39-5mdk from jeffb. I 
serve 5 mac-clients with it and I will poste what is working or what 
is not working.

A first try: Aliases from macs to Linux directories are not working 
after a reboot of a Mac.
-- 
Viele Grüße
Jürgen Weltzer

---

From: Harry Zink/Netatalk List <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 08:11:01 -0700

> this with the linux box but at the moment I have to run it without

I'm confused - are you saying that your linux box is damaging files when you
download them using the linux box. Thhis would NOT be normal behavior at
all.

Please clarify this.

> A first try: Aliases from macs to Linux directories are not working

This is odd - I had upgraded my netatalk installation to jeffb's RPMs, and
the one thing that I noticed is that alias' seem to be working now. I will
do more testing.

Harry

---

From: Jürgen Weltzer <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 21:52:14 +0100

>download them using the linux box. Thhis would NOT be normal behavior at

Sorry, sorry...for the confusion. I mean the damaged files which were 
produced while storing and copying files from the mac to the Linux 
box (with 2.1.3-30). I mean that it is more important for me, to find 
a well running netatalk version than to spend time to install an 
ISDN-Card and get running the Linux box for Web- and Mail-services.

>the one thing that I noticed is that alias' seem to be working now. I will

I mean Aliases of Sub-directories. An Alias to a Server Volume works. 
But to the Sub-directories its not working. Do you use the 39-5mdk? 
cause jeffb has a lot of rpms on the site.

But with the lost Aliases it is easier to life than with damaged 
files. I hope this version works without doing that.
-- 
Viele Grüße
Jürgen Weltzer

---

From: Reed Loefgren <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 15:01:18 -0400

> files. I hope this version works without doing that.

Hi all,

  I might be misunderstanding things a bit here, but I use netatalk
yadda yadda 3-7 and when I boot the Mac I have some aliases in the Apple
Menu that point to things much lower than the root level on my server
(Pmac8500/LinuxPPC 1999-Q3.) I have no trouble getting to those files.
Here's an edited example:
  The AppleMenu alias "our accounts" points to:

servername:/home/directoryMac
Files/directoryHouse/directoryFinances/QuickenFile"Accounts."

  Now, this is what, five levels down, not including the ethernet
connection to the server, and I haven't experienced any corruption. I am
doing multiple automatic backups just in case, but I'm getting ready to
treat this as production quality at my house.
  I also run [VirtualPC/Win NT 4.0-sp3/AutoCAD 98LT] and back everything
up to a D:\ drive image that's similarly deep on the server. No trouble.
All the C:\ drive image has on it is the OS and applications, everything
else is on the D:\ drive image or on tape or floppy.
  The only advantage I might have is that there are only two boxes on my
network so I get to enjoy the full duplexing benefits of a 25 foot
crossover cable rather than standard cat5, which makes 10Mb cards a
little better.
  I'd be happy to send people copies of my atalk config files, but
things are really just a vanilla install off the LinuxPPC 1999-Q3 CD. My
advice is to stop installing the latest-and-greatest-packages (truly
pandemic in Linux,) and install behind the curve unless there is
immediate and vocal acknowledgement that some quantum leap has been made
in quality/safety/stability. I rarely see this. There are Linux boxes
out there that have been up for months, get hammered every day, and are
happy as a clam on a 2.0 kernel, but if I happen to mention I run 2.2.12
I'm sure to get five or more contacts advising me to upgrade to
2.2.1[whatever]pre[whatever.] It's becoming ridiculous.
  Well, that's my spiel.
  The offer of config files was sincere...

Reed Loefgren 
-- 

The promise of the Machine Age was
to increase Leisure, not Productivity.

---

From: "Chris G. Sellers" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 19:52:22 -0400 (EDT)

Guys.
U-M is the owner of the software. (for lack of a better word).  I suggest 
working with the RSUG people in ITD to work on that effort.

If you guys can work with them, I am sure I would be able to contrib from 
my end.

>                    <I>"Information in the noise!"</I>

<(/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\-/|\/-\|/-\|/-\|/|\-/|\-/|/-\|/|\-/|\-/|\/-\|/-\|/-\)>

   Sellers , Chris G.		
   Scientific Programmer Analyst 	
    Information & Instructional Technology 
    Oakland University - Rochester, Michigan 48309-4401	
    Phone: (248) 370.2016    FAX: (248) 370.4251