Subject: Re: Major Netatalk confussion happening!

From: "Luke McNeilage" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 12:31:23 +1000

Steve

I have been suggesting for many months that we pack the whole thing up and
release netatalk V2. As the umich admins seem to have no interest in
furthering the project, and with Mr Sun gone to cobalt ( and if you don't
think that he's there to produce a competing commercial product to Helios
Ethertalk.....) there needs to be a concerted effort by those of us who can
really make this shit work to pull it together.

With regards to your fervor for the umich list: I have had numerous problems
with this list, I get little response to my questions and propositions, and
it is populated mostly by well meaning, but lazy newbies (there is more to
life than RPM). More to the point, I have only just been able to
re-subscribe, because it had just plain disappeared for about two months.

With regards to sourceforge: there is nothing happening, and it is pathetic
that the site does not support IE on the Macintosh, requires 5.01/128bit on
WIN. As much as I hate Microsoft, Netscape really sucks. No forum messages,
not patches, no bugs, no tech manager, NO DOCUMENTATION. What exactly are we
trying to achieve here?

The recent discovery (by some of you) of Webmin is a good case in point. The
first thing I do to any installation is remove linuxconf, and install
Webmin, but I put out a request 6 months ago for any input into a webmin
module, and got nothing back. If you (collectively) manage to write one,
where are going to post it; webmin, umich, thehampton, sourceforge, or
cobalt?

If you are going to look into this, are you going to look at the 1.3, 1.4b,
asun2.1......., asun2.1.4p39b subsection 47 paragraph 9 .... etc, (you get
my point). The difference in the configuration files for asun's new work is
considerable, and while I admire where he is going, the module needs to be
retro-fitable to the installed base.

I would be willing to entertain giving webspace, support, list server, and
even development grants to anybody who wishes to participate in establishing
a real development site.

To begin with the integration of the afp & atalk into a conf that makes
sense, and this is all launched, by a SysV std init. Now I know Mr. Asun's
version 2.1.4 is supposed to be heading down this path, but the rc.d//atalk
& netatalk.conf files in his pre- versions are completely undocumented. And
I think we are all looking for something that runs with the current
'distributions'.

Due to the complete lack of documentation, and the very poor implementation
of routing compatibility, there is a big gap in Netatalk's ability to fit
into networks that are run by stupid NT administrators that insist on
ticking the little box under "services for Macintosh" that enables routing
that separates the accountants from the graphic designers.

Let's try and get over this....

As the documentation for netatalk is founded in V1.2, it falls very short on
clarity.

Has anybody got an example of how they have configured their system to
support "zones", especially just a configuration to fit into an existing
zone, not the "*" default.

The standard SysV init script that comes with RH.rpm, does not give a
methodology for passing zone information. I have inserted a "ZONE_NAME" in
the /etc/atalk/config file and modified the initd atalk script so that it
now picks up and passes the zone to the nbp-reg

daemon atalkd
                nbprgstr -p 4 "${ATALK_NAME}:Workstation@${ZONE_NAME}"
                nbprgstr -p 4 "${ATALK_NAME}:netatalk@${ZONE_NAME}"

This works except for the AFPServer component, and the atalk fails.

The problem is now; if afpd reads from its own /etc/atalk/afpd.conf file,
what is all this about?

if [ ${AFPD_RUN} = yes ] ; then
                    daemon afpd ${AFPD_NOCLR} ${AFPD_NOAFS} ${AFPD_NOKRB} \
                        ${AFPD_NOGUEST} -g ${AFPD_GUEST} \
                        -c ${AFPD_MAX_CLIENTS} -n ${ATALK_NAME}

The suggestion from the documentation is that I should be able to launch
afpd -n @whatever_zone. This should imply that I could also insert the
${ZONE_NAME} after the -n call; guess what; not..

This is my afpd.conf
Box -tcp -ddp -nocleartxt -address 10.1.0.254

But as there appears to be no indication or documentation that this file
ever gets called, what has it really to do with the afp. Reading from man,
there should be a mechanism to insert "Box:AFPServer@all" into this line,
but it doesn't seem to work.

Neither does the atalk.conf
eth0 -addr 1.233 -zone "all"

And lastly, if anybody has ever run Appletalk services with the
back-grounding turned off,
do you get this line, and what does it mean?

Starting AppleTalk services: ./atalk: [: =: unary operator expected

I won't even begin on papd..

Thanks in advance.....

============================================================================
Luke McNeilage
Technical Director
D2P (Australasia) Pty Ltd
Email: [email-masked]
Web: www.d2p.com.au

Australia's leading file delivery system for publishing & graphic arts.

Tel: +61 (0)3 9429 3233
Fax: +61 (0)3 9427 0929
Mobile: 0419 512 868

Suite 3/243 Bridge Road
Richmond VIC 3121
Australia

----------

---

From: Steve Freitas <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 22:24:07 -0700

Hi Luke!

>release netatalk V2.

Your cheerleading has been rewarded! The next release is actually planned 
to be v1.5 at the moment, because it doesn't offer a lot of huge new 
features, but will be a coherent packaging of the latest patches and 
fixes, plus some new fixes as well. 2.0's feature list will be more 
aggressive, of course.

>there needs to be a concerted effort by those of us who can

In the last two weeks, 10 developers have been listed with the project so 
far, they're rolling in new patches daily, I'm working on a new FAQ, 
David Bosso is updating AppleVolumes.system, a Webmin module is now in 
the works (more below), etc. There's lots of work to do -- your hands and 
your time will be appreciated!

>with this list, I get little response to my questions and propositions...

I had similar problems on this list some time ago. But fortunately, 
enough programmers and others interested in Netatalk's progress have 
joined the list and are working together on improving it.

>From the time Phillip's fleet reached Port Jackson to establishment of 
the Commonwealth, 113 years passed. Columbus may have landed in America 
in 1492, but it took until 1776 to make a revolution. We won't take that 
long. :-) We've got a ways to go yet, but if you help out, we'll get 
there faster. Help us get to 1.5, and we'll pick up a lot of steam.

>With regards to sourceforge: there is nothing happening. <snip> No forum 
messages,
>not patches, no bugs, no tech manager, NO DOCUMENTATION. What exactly are we

What you may not know is that our home on SourceForge is less than two 
weeks old. That's why things are pretty threadbare. That'll change.

However, the CVS tree is most important of all. 9 days ago, 
netatalk-1.4b2+asun2.1.4pre39 was committed into the tree, and there have 
been dozens of changes committed since then. If you take a look at the 
CVS, you'll see that new additions are going in every day.

>[SourceForge] does not support IE on the Macintosh

I'm using IE 5 on the Mac, and it works fine. What trouble does it give 
you?

>I put out a request 6 months ago for any input into a webmin
>module, and got nothing back.

I think you'll find that things have improved since then. Scott Sipe and 
Matthew Keller (whom I've cc'd on this email) have volunteered to do a 
Webmin module. Will you volunteer to help them?

>If you (collectively) manage to write one, where are going to post it;
>webmin, umich, thehampton, sourceforge, or cobalt?

We haven't discussed it, but the logical places begin at Webmin and 
SourceForge. I think we're in the process of putting together a new home 
for Netatalk, but everyone's busy coding and editing at the moment.

>my point).

JeffB (correct me if I'm wrong on this attribution) started with ASun's 
latest and greatest when he committed it to the tree. Now the developer 
group is adding patches as time progresses.

>The difference in the configuration files for asun's new work is

I believe these concerns are being addressed. Can anyone comment on this?

>even development grants to anybody who wishes to participate in establishing

I really appreciate your willingness to do this. SourceForge has been 
decided upon by the group for a variety of reasons. However, I'm sure 
everyone will keep your offer in mind when the need arises. :-)

>that separates the accountants from the graphic designers.

I suffered from this myself with these old versions. Would you be willing 
to help document the config files? Can you detail your routing 
compatibility problems so they can be addressed?

>zone, not the "*" default.
<snip>
>I won't even begin on papd..

I can't answer these technical questions... I'll leave them to someone 
else. :-)

I think you'll find that Netatalk is on its way to a better future, and 
we'd love any help you can give us.

Steve

---

From: "Luke McNeilage" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 12:31:23 +1000

Steve

daemon atalkd

This is my afpd.conf

Thanks in advance.....

Tel: +61 (0)3 9429 3233
Fax: +61 (0)3 9427 0929
Mobile: 0419 512 868

Suite 3/243 Bridge Road
Richmond VIC 3121
Australia

----------

---

From: Steve Freitas <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 10:55:18 -0700

>I wish i could code, but I write software with perl mostly.
>Perhaps I could write up a module for webmin since it is done in perl
>anyway.  Before I can do that I would need better specs on Netatalk.

Great, just join in! :-) Scott Sipe and Matthew Keller are working on the 
Webmin module.

>Perhaps we need project leaders for each part of the project: file
>server, print server, documentation, etc...

Right now it seems that JeffB is the project leader for the code, I'm 
coordinating the docs, and Scott Sipe is the Webmin module leader.

>We need to get a little more organized and then we will start making some
>measurable progress.

I think things got reasonably well organized in your absence. We'll start 
to formalize things after we get a little further along.

Steve