Subject: netatalk vs ASIP 6.3 for speed

From: "Joe Rhodes" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 17:41:27 CDT

Hello all-

	I'm considering implementing a LinuxPPC + netatalk server in place of an 
ASIP 6.3 (MacOS 9.04) server.  I'd like to use the same hardware.

	My question is this:  Would the choice of LinuxPPC + Netatalk offer any 
increase/decrease in speed?

	The primary push here is for more stability.  ASIP has been getting a 
little creaky.  (it crashes once a week or so, and doesn't shut down 
properly, forcing about three reboots for the machine to be happy)  I have 
LinuxPPC running at home with netatalk-1.4b2+asun2.1.3-7 and it seems to be 
fine (using an iBook to connect.  My question is what happens when I put 
this in a production environment?  (The art dept, using QXP and Photoshop)  
Are there any other little "gottcha"'s I should be warned about?  (Besides 
not manipulating the QXP doc directly off the server)

	The machine has 256 MB of RAM and is an 8500/180 with two internal disks 
and three external disks (all SCSI).
	The network is a 100Mb switched network, with three appletalk zones. There 
are about 20 Macs all connected in the same zone.

	All I want (for now anyways) is fast, stable file services in one zone, and 
ssh running for remote admin.  Later I might start talking about samba, 
apache, mailservers, etc.

	Will I gain much by moving to Linux/netatalk?  Or should I look at a new 
server?  (Running ASIP?  MacOS X Server?  Windo...naw, never mind that one)

Thanks so much in advance!
-Joe Rhodes

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---

From: Marcus Radich <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 11:51:58 +1200

Hi, how are you?

Can't say that i'm an expert with LinuxPPC, but what I can tell you 
is the pros and cons of netatalk vs ASIP in a production environment 
(my company builds Linux servers specifically for serving 
Quark/Photoshop/Freehand etc users).
We have a few ASIP servers out there, but these will be replaced soon 
with Linux Servers.

***** Pros:
1. Speed.
Netatalk can run faster than ASIP if it is running on the right 
hardware and is set up correctly. We have proven this time and time 
again. Example: New netatalk server installed last week, we had to 
copy 1.4GB of work off a Mac to the new server (Beige G3 with 100BT 
card through a switch to 100BT Server): Just over 2 minutes.
Don't get me wrong here, ASIP and MOSX are fast, but we can set up 
machines which are faster  :->

2. Remote admin.
Yes, I know you can run those pretty GUI admin tools for ASIP, and 
there is Timbuktu, but there is nothing like having FULL command line 
control over a system - from any machine, anywhere.
Example: I was out at a friends house for lunch when I got a call 
that a client needed to add another user to their server. Fine. 
Walked over to my friends Windows PC (yuck yuck), logged in and set 
it up. Quick and easy.

3. Stability.
Errrr, no question here! Our Mac servers are stable, but we are 
running a maintainence schedule on them every 2 weeks. We have some 
netatalk servers that have uptimes now being counted in years. Great.

4. Hardware and software 'additions'
With the use of Intel gear, we are able to put together really 
complete systems for much less $$ than a Mac system. Proper hardware 
RAID cards, fast snapshot backups (which don't slow the server down 
while they are going), proper multiple network card support etc

***** Cons:
1. Alias support.
Yes, this is a problem, but I personally think that file management 
can help here. We set up out production servers with the following 
folders:

Incoming - for work that is not quite ready for production
In Progress - for work that needs to be done (main work folder)
On Hold - for when the customers put it on hold
To Archive - When it is finished

Jobs just move from one folder to another depending on their status. 
Simple, fast and effective.

2. Permissions and setup
If you only kinda know what you are doing, you can make a real mess. 
The key to all unix style stuff (in my opinion) is know permissions 
inside out. This will save you time in the long run. Setup time and 
configuration takes much longer with Linux/netatalk.

3. Trash and multiple trashs.
The occasional network trash problem with not being able to remove 
files etc. Not a major, crond and a few little scripts can fix this 
nightly. This is really rare.

Just my experience and 2c...

mrad01

At 5:41 pm -0500 17/6/2000, Joe Rhodes wrote:
>Hello all-
>
>	I'm considering implementing a LinuxPPC + netatalk server in 
>place of an ASIP 6.3 (MacOS 9.04) server.  I'd like to use the same 
>hardware.
>
>	My question is this:  Would the choice of LinuxPPC + Netatalk 
>offer any increase/decrease in speed?
>
>	The primary push here is for more stability.  ASIP has been 
>getting a little creaky.  (it crashes once a week or so, and doesn't 
>shut down properly, forcing about three reboots for the machine to 
>be happy)  I have LinuxPPC running at home with 
>netatalk-1.4b2+asun2.1.3-7 and it seems to be fine (using an iBook 
>to connect.  My question is what happens when I put this in a 
>production environment?  (The art dept, using QXP and Photoshop) 
>Are there any other little "gottcha"'s I should be warned about? 
>(Besides not manipulating the QXP doc directly off the server)
>
>	The machine has 256 MB of RAM and is an 8500/180 with two 
>internal disks and three external disks (all SCSI).
>	The network is a 100Mb switched network, with three appletalk 
>zones. There are about 20 Macs all connected in the same zone.
>
>	All I want (for now anyways) is fast, stable file services in 
>one zone, and ssh running for remote admin.  Later I might start 
>talking about samba, apache, mailservers, etc.
>
>	Will I gain much by moving to Linux/netatalk?  Or should I 
>look at a new server?  (Running ASIP?  MacOS X Server?  Windo...naw, 
>never mind that one)
>
>

========================================================

"Always ask the question, never assume the answer."
		Marcus Radich 1999

========================================================

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From: Harry Zink/Netatalk List <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 13:30:44 -0700

on 6/17/2000 3:41 PM, Joe Rhodes at [email-masked] wrote:

> properly, forcing about three reboots for the machine to be happy)

Sorry, but that is not ASIP related. I have multitudes of ASIP servers
running, and NONE exhibit the behaviors you describe, even those running on
legacy machines.

I suggest taking a good look at your OS configuration, and making sure you
run the latest ASIP updates.

This could also be related to older hard disk drivers, or a system that is
in bad need of being optimized, or having  ahard drive maintenance system
run on it. You are running nothing else than ASIP on the system, right?

> server?  (Running ASIP?  MacOS X Server?  Windo...naw, never mind that one)

You might gain performance improvements. You *WILL* lose the ability to have
your users create alias' of subfolders.

Harry