Subject: Re: [netatalk-admins] Using Netatalk as a Router

From: "Eddie Irvine" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 16:49:13 +1000

Eddie Assumed:
>> You can't have two zones unless you have two ethernet or
>> appletalk networks.

Andras Corrected: 
>I am afraid, You are wrong here. You can have multiple zones even on one
>cable, like You can have multiple DNS domains on one subnet in unix. 

Thanks for the correction. I had a feeling after I wrote that that I may
have put my foot in it a bit too far. Looks like I'd better do some 
research on AppleTalk.
 
Anyhow,
 
So, if I want afpd to seed a single cable with two zone names,
do I need two cards? Do I need one card?
 
Can I do it with a mac? Can I do it with afpd? Do you need a 
router?
 
What would afpd.conf look like?
 
ed0 -seed -phase 2 -????? -zone "Foo" -zone "Bar"

---

From: Andras Kadinger <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 09:09:33 +0200 (MET DST)

Hi Eddie,

Let me say at first, that I am not an AppleTalk expert myself.

> do I need two cards? Do I need one card?

It is irrelevant, how many network interfaces You have. The only relevant
point is, that You have to specify -seed for atalkd, to make it 'seed' the
network with zone information. This 'seeding' makes Macs switch to 'zoned
networking' (dialog box popping up, saying 'Youe AppleTalk network is now
available.').

> Can I do it with a mac?

You can do it with anything, that can 'seed' the network. I am not up to
date about Apple products, but I think AppleShare on the Mac includes this
capability.

> Can I do it with afpd?

No - You can do it with atalkd, though.

> Do you need a router?

No. You should be able to do this even on a Linux machine without any
network connectivity (atalkd must have a network interface to bind to,
though), and define Zones.

> ed0 -seed -phase 2 -????? -zone "Foo" -zone "Bar"

I think You meant atalkd.conf here. The man-page can be followed here, so
Your example is correct (but no need for any extra options in place of the
?-s). Like this:

eth0 -seed -phase 2 -net 10 -addr 10.10 -zone "Appletree" -zone "Twilight"

All routers on the same cable must agree on configuration options; if a
router starting up has different configuration, is should shut down itself
- which atalkd correctly does.

One last note: if You decide to seed the network, You have to define at
least two zones; I encountered some mysterious problems with only one
zone: Macs can see printers in the chooser, but when starting to actually
print, they can't find the same printer, or complain about printing
errors. 

Sincerely,
Andras Kadinger
[email-masked]

---

From: Tony Moran <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 09:05:56 +0100

>>cable, like You can have multiple DNS domains on one subnet in unix.

Thanks for all the info guys..Out of interest tho, how then, if Zones are
not based on network or segment or anything, does one specify certain
(Macintosh) workstations and servers to appear on different Zones ?

There must be a way as there wouldnt be much sense in having Zones in
the first place unless one can assign different machines to different Zones.

Cheers,  Tony.

__________________________________________________
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From: Andras Kadinger <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:37:02 +0200 (MET DST)

Hi Tony,

> (Macintosh) workstations and servers to appear on different Zones ?

In Control Panels|Appletalk You can choose the current zone the Mac will
appear in, but only, if there are more zones defined for the cable the Mac
is on.

Sincerely,
Andras Kadinger
[email-masked]

---

From: Bill Studenmund <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:31:41 -0700 (PDT)

> (Macintosh) workstations and servers to appear on different Zones ?

Zone names are kinda based on network. For each network, there are one or
more zone names available to devices on that network. A zone name can be
present on multiple networks, too. It's a many to many mapping.

> the first place unless one can assign different machines to different Zones.

Someone else just said how to do it for macs (Networking or AppleTalk CP).
For netatalk, you specify the zone name when you set up the NBP info.

Take care,

Bill

---

From: Bill Studenmund <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 13:34:48 -0700 (PDT)

> networking' (dialog box popping up, saying 'Youe AppleTalk network is now

With Netatalk, it's not irrelevant. atalkd will only seed if there are two
or more interfaces.

You can change atalkd, though, to let it seed w/ just one interface. :-)

Take care,

Bill

---

From: William LeFebvre <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 16:54:03 -0400

> present on multiple networks, too. It's a many to many mapping.

With the proviso that all networks within the same zone must be
contiguous.  That is, each network must be directly connected (via
a router) to at least one other network in the zone.

				William LeFebvre
				Group sys Consulting
				<[email-masked]>
				+1 770 813 3224

---

From: Bill Studenmund <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 14:05:14 -0700 (PDT)

> a router) to at least one other network in the zone.

Are you sure? We have a few zones here which apear in different buildings.
All the interbuilding connections are tunneled (no Appletalk on the
backbone). So these routers aren't connected to each other.

I thought what the Macs did was, when they wanted to look in a zone, they
found all the net numbers with that zone, and sent a request to a router
on each such net. Thus you shouldn't need to be connected.

??

Take care,

Bill

---

From: Tony Moran <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 10:01:22 +0100

>With Netatalk, it's not irrelevant. atalkd will only seed if there are two

Hmm..ok.. so do both of those have to connect to different subnets or can the
two interfaces hook into just the same network ?

Thanks for all the information guys,

Tony.

                                          ->>!<<-

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From: Bill Studenmund <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:00:30 -0700 (PDT)

> two interfaces hook into just the same network ?

Seperate networks. Otherwise you can make a loop which will get atalkd
sick.

Take care,

Bill

---

From: Andras Kadinger <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 03:35:44 +0200

> >With Netatalk, it's not irrelevant. atalkd will only seed if there are two

Very true and obvious for someone knowing what they are talking about.

Tony (and others): do _not_, I repeat, do _not_ give credit to my words
regarding zones and seeding! It seems, I seeded the list with some of my
misunderstandings again, so to increase the S/N ratio, I will refrain
from participation for a while.

I apologize.

Sincerely,
Andras Kadinger
[email-masked]

---

From: "Warren H. Chang" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 22:33:10 -0400 (EDT)

Hello again,

First of all, many thanks to everyone for help in the past.

AS for the present,  I have to installtions I did.. One on a redhat 5.0
linux server and the other on a Solaris 2.5.6 server.  The redhat works
fine, but because of certain issues, we can't use it.  Therefore I
installed netatalk-1.4b2 (non-asun) on the Solaris machine and though
netatalk DOES run, it corrupts files.  Mostly this is .jpg and .gif files
i'm currently testing and they are either having certain pixels changed,
or the whole file is corrupt.  I removed the -DCLF (or whatever it is
flag) to turn off the EOL conversion, and it still happens.  However, any
transfers via the redhat netatalk server works beautifully. That one is
running the rpm version, (I think it was the asun, but not sure..)  is
there a real significant difference between asun and non-asun?

Or is it because of Solaris system.  I read in the past mailing list
archives that the asun version doesn't like solaris.... So i'm afraid to
try that, as this server has been crashed once already and doesn't need a
repeat.

The AppleVolumes.system file is the original one that came with the
package.

Any ideas?? I'm not really sure where to look.  I had hoped it was a
simply EOL translation problem, but it doesn't seem to be so.

Thanks in advance.

Warren