Subject: [netatalk-admins] Mac backup solutions

From: Brian Bothwell <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 13:05:23 -0500 (EST)

Today my boss put me in charge of coming up with a robust, convenient,
yet affordable backup solution for the nine Macs, and 6 NT/95 machines in
our office. After laughing to myself for a bit, I figured the vast pool of
knowledge on this list might be able to help.  :)

Since we are purchasing a new server soon (which will run RedHat 5.1) and
are planning to get a SCSI DAT 4mm backup drive for it, I would like to
find some way of using this drive to backup the Macs with using Netatalk.
I suggested having all Mac users put all files they wanted backed up into
folder(s) that are Netatalk-shared from the Linux server, then just doing
standard nightly backups (with weekly full dumps). However, he said he
wants to have a system in which the Mac users can automatically back up
their entire system (sans the Applications which we have on CD-ROM and can
be easily re-installed)  

I have looked at Retrospect
(http://www.dantz.com/dantz_products/rnbk.html), which looks like an
option but that would mean I would have to administer the backups from one
of the Macs (not a big deal, but I would prefer to do it from the Linux
server)  I was thinking I could hook up the tape drive to the Linux box,
 share it via Netatalk, then backup to it using Retrospect.  Retrospect
does full NT and Win95 backups as well.

Has anyone set up any backup solutions like this?  What other ways might I
go about this?

Thanx, 

-Brian

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From: Tony Stuckey <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:00:41 -0500 (CDT)

> Has anyone set up any backup solutions like this?  What other ways might I

	ARCserve is one option.  I'm not sure that they have a server that
would run on your net, but they definitely have clients.
http://www.cheyenne.com/Product-Info/Datasheets/14100.html#tech
	Retrospect will also back up to a Storageset which is a file.  This
could be targeted at a shared area from the Linux box which is then backed
up to tape locally.  Kinda gross, and gives you a lot of network traffic
and is a poor use of disk space, but ...
	We use Retrospect to a local Mac tape drive.  We've had some
problems with it not detecting clients and with it dropping connections to
a client in the middle of a backup, leaving it unfinished.  It's pretty
easy to re-run an individual client when this happens, though.

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From: Andrew McNabb <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 14:32:08 -0500 (CDT)

I know that somebody is working on an AFP client for Linux.  It has been
available for quite some time but still needs some more work before it
will be ready for real use.  The program is called AFPFS.  When it gets to
the right point, you could write a script to automatically copy over all
of your files.

BTW, the Samba package will allow you to do the same thing for Windoze.

Good luck.

> Has anyone set up any backup solutions like this?  What other ways might I

----------------------------------------------
                Andrew McNabb
             Argus Systems Group
          [email-masked]
----------------------------------------------
  I am an International Arms Trafficker!!!!!
http://online.offshore.com.ai/arms-trafficker/
----------------------------------------------

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From: Randy Newman <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 19:44:10 +0000

> Has anyone set up any backup solutions like this?  What other ways might I

  I use Speed Doubler 8. It has an automatic copy agent that I use to copy a
working folder on each mac to a Netatalk Server. Then I backup the Server
with a tape drive. I also use Retrospect locally on the mac network. It has a
very convent search and retrieve ability. So I have redundancy and ease of
use. I keep the server in another part of the building locked up tight so if
all the workstations are stolen the server wont go with it. Also don't forget
to take a offsite backup at least once a week.

Ran

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 16:31:31 -0400 (EDT)

To restate the scope of your request:

a backup system that is
	cheap
	reliable
	convenient
and handles user-initiated backups from multiple OSes, including MacOS,
Windows95 and Windows NT.

> I was thinking I could hook up the tape drive to the Linux box,
> share it via Netatalk, then backup to it using Retrospect. 

That would probably not be a good idea, while it might work -- if you can
get the tape drive to appear to be an AFP volume. Retrospect will backup
to an AFP volume, but locating that volume somewhere else on the network
would saturate your bandwidth, and would not be able to take advantage of
hardware data compression on the DAT mechanism. Basically, you'd be
unnecessarily extending the backup time.

The best choice for Retrospect is a locally attached tape drive. Their
tech support is very good if you need help making a decision.

> Retrospect does full NT and Win95 backups as well.

Sort of. It doesn't backup Macintosh files from NT servers running
Services for Macintosh unless the AFP volumes are mounted on the
Retrospect system. If you're not running Services for Macintosh, then
that's not an issue.

> Has anyone set up any backup solutions like this?  What other ways might I

ARCserve also sorta works, if you're running it from an NT server. On a 
UNIX (Solaris, at least) system, ARCserve doesn't backup Macintosh files
properly.

The other options for cross-platform backup are Legato NetWorker or IBM's
AdStar. I don't know if they've got a Linux version yet or not. However,
they're both enterprise-class solutions and may be beyond your price
range.

If you want a Linux version of Retrospect, let Dantz know.

/cwc

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From: "Donald L. Nash" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 15:54:04 -0500

> Retrospect system. If you're not running Services for Macintosh, then

I believe that this restriction applies to any file with more than one
stream (NTFS supports up to 255 streams per file, as I recall).  Only the
first stream of a multistream file is backed up by Retrospect.  I think it
just happens to be the case that only Services for Macintosh makes use of
multiple streams at the moment.  I don't recall if Dantz has any plans to
address this issue, although I'd be rather surprised if they don't given the
nature of the company.  They're pretty sharp.

To clarify, a Mac service must be mounted on the Retrospect system *and*
backed up from there as a "local" filesystem, not via the Retrospect Client
running on the NT system.  I wanted to make that second half clear, since
simply mounting the service via AFP and then backing up via the Retrospect
Client won't do any good.

Actually, I think an NT Mac service can be mounted on any Mac Retrospect
client and backed up from there, but it makes the most sense to mount it on
the Restrospect server itself to avoid a second trip across the network.

-- 
Donald L. Nash, <[email-masked]>, PGP Key ID: 0x689DA021
The University of Texas System Office of Telecommunication Services