Subject: [netatalk-admins] Atalk over TCP/IP only?

From: Georg Schwarz <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 18:57:23 +0200 (MEST)

when using AppleTalk over TCP/IP only with Netatalk (i.e. no Ethertalk
access is needed) do you still need some kernel that supports AppleTalk?
I'd suppose atalkd etc. are then just ordinary TCP/IP apps.
Is that assumption correct? Can Asun's version of Netatalk be configured to
use AppleTalk over TCP/IP only? If so, is it possible to install it on some
UNIX whose kernel does not support AppleTalk, e.g. SGI IRIX?

Is there any disadvantage of using AppleTalk over TCP/IP with a MacOS 8.1
client that uses TCP/IP anyway? Can you mount volumes from more than just
one server at a time using AppleTalk over TCP/IP? Can you mix AppleTalk over
TCP/IP and Ethertalk (from the client's perspective)?

Another question: would netatalk using AppleTalk over IP require privileged
prots, or could it in principle be ran under a non-root id, assuming you
only want to serve files for which that user has access permissions?

-- 
Georg Schwarz                             [email-masked]
Institut für Theoretische Physik    Tel. +49 30 314-24254, FAX -21130
Technische Universität Berlin          http://home.pages.de/~schwarz/
Sekr. PN 7-1, Hardenbergstr. 36, D-10623 Berlin            IRC: kuroi

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From: Michael M Han <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:36:47 -0700

Previously...
>access is needed) do you still need some kernel that supports AppleTalk?

Yes you do, but only because the netatalk package has only been ported
where the kernel can go. It is theoretically possible (and has been
kicked around as a possibility on several occassions) to write an
IP-only afpd (AppleShare server).

>I'd suppose atalkd etc. are then just ordinary TCP/IP apps.

No, atalkd implements listening on AppleTalk, requiring that AppleTalk
support be present in the kernel. afpd is a hybrid, being able to
listen both on atalk and ip.

>use AppleTalk over TCP/IP only?

Yes, it can. 'man afpd' provides information on how to create an
afpd.conf for listening only on IP or on Atalk.

>If so, is it possible to install it on some

No. See above. Adrian's making some strides in separating the IP from
the Atalk in the source tree. At some point it may be possible to grab
an afpd for IP source tree that would be more portable than a
"classic" netatalk, the portability of which is sharply limited by the
requirements of kernel drivers.

>TCP/IP and Ethertalk (from the client's perspective)?

Yes on all counts. This stuff is all relatively easy to witness once
you actually try out ASIP connectivity.

>only want to serve files for which that user has access permissions?

Kernel driver installation requires root privelige, so I guess you are
referring to the fabled IP-only afpd. Theoretically what you
describe should be possible. Starting a process and listening on a
port should be doable for any user id, I think. It may require SUID
root though, in order to bind a port?

I'm relatively sure that what I've written is right, and if anything's
wrong I'm sure someone can jump in and correct me. Just give netatalk
a test drive though, since it's easy enough to find the answers to a
lot of your questions once netatalk's properly installed.
_________
mike ([email-masked])
I will not encourage others to fly
 - The collected wisdom of Bart Simpson

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From: Nicholas Riley <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:51:19 -0400 (EDT)

> root though, in order to bind a port?

Only for listening on privileged ports (<1024?) is root required. I notice
from reading the release notes on AppleShare client 3.8 that you can
specify a port number in the IP address dialog box by using a colon, i.e.
www.xxx.yyy.zzz;port - which would mean as long as you picked a random
unprivileged port that you could connect from a Mac to this hypothetical
TCP-only afpd.

--
Nicholas Riley <[email-masked]>

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From: Georg Schwarz <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:02:21 +0200 (MEST)

> IP-only afpd (AppleShare server).

OK, I thought it could be *compiled* to only use TCP/IP.
> listen both on atalk and ip.

yes, and it looks like it cannot be reduced to IP only on compile time :-(
> afpd.conf for listening only on IP or on Atalk.

but still the compiled code would contain and thus require Ethertalk
capabilities :-(

> No. See above. Adrian's making some strides in separating the IP from

:-(

> requirements of kernel drivers.

yes, unfortunately :-(
> you actually try out ASIP connectivity.

nice to know

> Kernel driver installation requires root privelige, so I guess you are

sure.

> port should be doable for any user id, I think. It may require SUID

yes, if it's a port > 1024. I'm not sure which port # the AppleTalk over IP protocol uses.

> root though, in order to bind a port?

not if it's a nonprivileged port (i.e. > 1024).

> lot of your questions once netatalk's properly installed.

I'm already running a couple of Netatalk servers on Linux, but Ethertalk
only so far (and only on Linux).

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From: Georg Schwarz <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 21:03:24 +0200 (MEST)

> unprivileged port that you could connect from a Mac to this hypothetical

which is the default port for AppleTalk over IP?

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From: Tony Stuckey <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:42:08 -0500 (CDT)

> which is the default port for AppleTalk over IP?

	548.
	This is documented in a number of places.
famine $ niscat services.org_dir | grep 548
afpovertcp afpovertcp tcp 548  AFP over TCP
afpovertcp afpovertcp udp 548  AFP over TCP
famine $

-- 
Anthony J. Stuckey                              [email-masked]
"When I was young, the sky was full of stars.
 I watched them burn out one by one."  -Warren Zevon